ELI5

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Re: ELI5

Postby ageing hammer on Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:29 pm

claretandblue82 wrote:Why are Mummy and Daddy always fighting?





Because Daddy doesn't like sharing mummy with all of us on Kumb.:wink:
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Re: ELI5

Postby Monkeybubbles on Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:29 pm

yonni wrote:My ELI5 would be can anyone explain the Circle of Fifths in music theory and how to use it?



FFS, you're 5!!! Go and toot your harmonica at your mum.

Most important thing about the Co5ths.....if you pick any three adjacent notes in the circle, they make a Status Quo song. The key note, its subdominant, and its dominant. That's the story of the blues.

Also if you look at the key signature at the start of written music, it'll be the clef and then a number of sharp or flat symbols. If you start with C Major at the top of the circle, and then count round the circle by the number of symbols (clockwise for sharp symbols, andticlock for flats) it'll tell you the key the music is in.
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Re: ELI5

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:06 pm

Between your Circles Of Fifths and Photography's Circles Of Confusion I'm left going round in........circles .
:oops:
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Re: ELI5

Postby yonni on Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:15 pm

uptonparkhurst wrote:I think a lot may depend on whether you are coming at this as a keyboard player or guitarist, and whether you already know what is meant by first,third,fifth - the building blocks for a major chord - etc.

Neither - I play bass scientifically the most important instrument https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.mic.com/articles/amp/120137/science-suggests-bassists-are-far-more-important-than-most-people-realize I understand chord makeup I just don't get why the circle of fifths goes FCGDAEB why doesn't it follow a scale? My teacher says it just does BUT I NEED TO KNOW!!! (I probably don't).
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Re: ELI5

Postby WHU_Del on Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:32 pm

Another musical one.
Singers say a song is in the wrong key for them and they want to sing it in a different key. As I understood it from music lessons at school, the key of a song is determined by the key note in the first chord.
So, seeing as that can't change, how can the key be changed?
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Re: ELI5

Postby Monkeybubbles on Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:55 pm

WHU_Del wrote:Another musical one.
Singers say a song is in the wrong key for them and they want to sing it in a different key. As I understood it from music lessons at school, the key of a song is determined by the key note in the first chord.
So, seeing as that can't change, how can the key be changed?


It just means you shift all the notes and chords in the song up or down by the same amount, so that the whole song is a bit higher or lower.

Like, the chords to La Bamba when played in the key of C are C, F, G. If my stupidly squeaky voice wants the whole song to be pitched a little higher we could change it to the key of D by playing D, G, A instead (given that the musical alphabet goes from A to G, and then starts from A again).
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Re: ELI5

Postby uptonparkhurst on Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:00 pm

uptonparkhurst wrote:I think a lot may depend on whether you are coming at this as a keyboard player or guitarist, and whether you already know what is meant by first,third,fifth - the building blocks for a major chord - etc.


yonni wrote:Neither - I play bass scientifically the most important instrument https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/m.mic.com/articles/amp/120137/science-suggests-bassists-are-far-more-important-than-most-people-realize I understand chord makeup I just don't get why the circle of fifths goes FCGDAEB why doesn't it follow a scale? My teacher says it just does BUT I NEED TO KNOW!!! (I probably don't).


:lol: I was including bass in "guitarist" - it's easier to see shapes/patterns on a stringed instrument (in my view)
It can't follow a scale because each note on the circle is part of the major scale of the previous note.
C is the 5th of the F major scale
G is the 5th of the C major scale
D is the 5th of the G major scale and so on.
Another way to think about it:
Chordally, you're moving to the dominant chord - the chord that leads you back to the "home" key
(of the previous letter on the circle).
So , playing in A when you hear a E7 you normally expect that the tune is going "home" to A.
Similarly, playing in D - a A7 is likely to be followed by a return to D.

I expect you know all this anyway!
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Re: ELI5

Postby uptonparkhurst on Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:25 pm

Monkeybubbles wrote:Like, the chords to La Bamba when played in the key of C are C, F, G. If my stupidly squeaky voice wants the whole song to be pitched a little higher we could change it to the key of D by playing D, G, A instead (given that the musical alphabet goes from A to G, and then starts from A again).


You've reminded me of that classic Morecambe and Wise sketch where they sing a tune, followed by
"one more time" then repeat the tune in a higher key, until they get into Pinky-and-Perky territory.
Damn - I can't seem to find it on YOUTUBE! :)
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Re: ELI5

Postby yonni on Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:19 pm


I expect you know all this anyway!

It doesn't matter how many times it's explained to me I still want whine like a 5 year old "but why?" I think I just need to accept that there is no ELI5 answer to this and take it as a given. Just like the religious do with God.
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Re: ELI5

Postby yonni on Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:23 pm

Ok try this one:
Why does the weight of a vehicle impact performance when going up hill but not on the flat (apart from the initial acceleration)?
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Re: ELI5

Postby Hammer1972 on Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:08 pm

yonni wrote:Ok try this one:
Why does the weight of a vehicle impact performance when going up hill but not on the flat (apart from the initial acceleration)?


Presumably because when you are going uphill you are pushing against gravity whereas moving along a flat you are not?!
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Re: ELI5

Postby southbrishammer on Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:36 am

delbert wrote:Where do babies come from..?

claretandblue82 wrote:Why are Mummy and Daddy always fighting? :cry:

Clearly most of you don't have 5 year old kids. Obamacare, the constituent parts of the Earth, musical theory? You can explain them like the listener is 5, but if the listener is actually 5, they aren't interested in the answer, so don't waste your time.

The other day in the bath, my 5 year old daughter asked me why water is flat, except at the seaside where there are waves. It was a brilliant question, in keeping with her enquiring mind, but a very short way into my ELI5 explanation of gravity and the relative position of the moon to the Earth, she had clearly got bored and asked me to make a beard on my face with bubbles.

The two quotes above are, in my opinion, the only questions on this thread so far where it is possible to explain like you are 5.

And for info, if anybody needs an ELI5 explanation of why we have belly buttons, I think I cracked it tonight. Usual consultancy rates apply.
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Re: ELI5

Postby Hammer1972 on Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:50 am

Well I started the thread and I do have a 5 year old.

But I think you might be slightly missing the point....!
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Re: ELI5

Postby uptonparkhurst on Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:05 pm

southbrishammer wrote:
The other day in the bath, my 5 year old daughter asked me why water is flat, except at the seaside where there are waves.


BBC Horizon - Secret Life of Waves

These clips are the ones with the rubber ducks. (You will like it too :) )
https://youtu.be/Kmllm1dAug4?t=774

https://youtu.be/Kmllm1dAug4?t=2686
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Re: ELI5

Postby WHU_Del on Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:19 pm

Monkeybubbles wrote:
It just means you shift all the notes and chords in the song up or down by the same amount, so that the whole song is a bit higher or lower.

Like, the chords to La Bamba when played in the key of C are C, F, G. If my stupidly squeaky voice wants the whole song to be pitched a little higher we could change it to the key of D by playing D, G, A instead (given that the musical alphabet goes from A to G, and then starts from A again).

But does that not alter the sound of the song? A C doesn't sound the same as a D.
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Re: ELI5

Postby uptonparkhurst on Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:44 pm

Monkeybubbles wrote:
It just means you shift all the notes and chords in the song up or down by the same amount, so that the whole song is a bit higher or lower.

Like, the chords to La Bamba when played in the key of C are C, F, G. If my stupidly squeaky voice wants the whole song to be pitched a little higher we could change it to the key of D by playing D, G, A instead (given that the musical alphabet goes from A to G, and then starts from A again).


WHU_Del wrote:But does that not alter the sound of the song? A C doesn't sound the same as a D.


Yes and No.
It only alters the pitch of the song, but if you keep raising the pitch you will soon sound like
The Bee Gees or Pinky and Perky (as MB explained).
But the distances between each note of the melody stays the same. It is still the same melody.
(The same applies to the backing)

A guitarist can play a song in C.
He can then stick a capo on the guitar on the second fret which raises the pitch so that a C chord is now a D chord to the ear - but the guitarist will play the song in exactly the same way.

Listen to these 2 clips - the chorus from The Beatles' PENNY LANE from 2 different points in the song.
This one is in A

https://youtu.be/S-rB0pHI9fU?t=36

This one is raised up to B
https://youtu.be/S-rB0pHI9fU?t=156
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Re: ELI5

Postby yonni on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:42 am

uptonparkhurst wrote:BBC Horizon - Secret Life of Waves

These clips are the ones with the rubber ducks. (You will like it too :) )
https://youtu.be/Kmllm1dAug4?t=774

https://youtu.be/Kmllm1dAug4?t=2686


That's made me want to go back and study physics. Was always interested in it but we had a crap alcoholic physics teacher who muttered and mumbled his way through the lessons. No one understood a word and complaints to school weren't taken seriously. The head was a wet fool and did nothing. Those that could afford it had private tuition the rest failed. I might do an online A level once I've finished my current studies.
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Re: ELI5

Postby White Goodman on Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:59 pm

My car (petrol) will do 0-60 in 5 secs. They make a corresponding diesel version that does it in 5.8 secs.

The diesel version develops more torque than the petrol, quite a bit more. I thought torque was a good marker of how fast something would accelerate?

Can someone explain to me why the above holds true?
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Re: ELI5

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:26 pm

Diesel fuel contains more energy than the same amount of petrol. The problem is it burns more slowly than petrol, so in a given time you can extract more energy from petrol than diesel but you use more of it. As the revs rise the petrol engine will carry on producing more power, the diesel will reach a point where the previous charge of fuel has not finished burning before the next one comes along. You can see this as plumes of soot (unburnt fuel) from the exhaust.

Each power stroke of the engine turns the crankshaft with a given force, greater in a diesel engine all other things being equal. The engine doesn't drive the wheels directly, there's a gearbox in the way. This matches the engine revs to the roadspeed. A diesel engine, because it produces more torque, or turning force, will be higher geared than the petrol version. 70 mph in the diesel may happen at 2000 rpm, 2500 in the petrol.

Some sums. Power equals torque x revs. Torque in this case can be defined as 'how hard the piston turns (or pushes) the crankshaft' and power as 'how often it turns it in a given time'. A 'push' of one hundred units delivered one hundred times in a second will produce twice the power of the same push delivered fifty times.

When you get to the upper reaches of the rev ranges, the diesel begins to lose efficiency at around 4000 rpm, it just can't burn the fuel quickly enough.The petrol engine can go to 7 or 8 thousand rpm, and although it produces less force with each push on the piston it can produce more of them in a second and produces more power.

As 0-60 times take the engine to the red line, the petrol engine spends more time than the diesel producing more power.

'Excess' power produces the acceleration. If a car needs 50 bhp to maintain a steady speed overcoming air and road resistance, when you put your foot down and produce more power the car accelerates until the power produced is no longer greater than the power needed to maintain current speed. Air resistance is the major factor and increases as the square of the speed. It takes four time the power to do 100 than it does to do 50.
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Re: ELI5

Postby claretandblue82 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:47 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:Diesel fuel contains more energy than the same amount of petrol. The problem is it burns more slowly than petrol, so in a given time you can extract more energy from petrol than diesel but you use more of it. As the revs rise the petrol engine will carry on producing more power, the diesel will reach a point where the previous charge of fuel has not finished burning before the next one comes along. You can see this as plumes of soot (unburnt fuel) from the exhaust.

Each power stroke of the engine turns the crankshaft with a given force, greater in a diesel engine all other things being equal. The engine doesn't drive the wheels directly, there's a gearbox in the way. This matches the engine revs to the roadspeed. A diesel engine, because it produces more torque, or turning force, will be higher geared than the petrol version. 70 mph in the diesel may happen at 2000 rpm, 2500 in the petrol.

Some sums. Power equals torque x revs. Torque in this case can be defined as 'how hard the piston turns (or pushes) the crankshaft' and power as 'how often it turns it in a given time'. A 'push' of one hundred units delivered one hundred times in a second will produce twice the power of the same push delivered fifty times.

When you get to the upper reaches of the rev ranges, the diesel begins to lose efficiency at around 4000 rpm, it just can't burn the fuel quickly enough.The petrol engine can go to 7 or 8 thousand rpm, and although it produces less force with each push on the piston it can produce more of them in a second and produces more power.

As 0-60 times take the engine to the red line, the petrol engine spends more time than the diesel producing more power.

'Excess' power produces the acceleration. If a car needs 50 bhp to maintain a steady speed overcoming air and road resistance, when you put your foot down and produce more power the car accelerates until the power produced is no longer greater than the power needed to maintain current speed. Air resistance is the major factor and increases as the square of the speed. It takes four time the power to do 100 than it does to do 50.


I'd like to see who much of this you could say to a 5 year old before they get distracted by something else.

My daughter has just turned 5 and answers the questions as she hears them. But it's so funny as its not how they are intended to be answered.

1. Sister in law asks 'Where did you go swimming?' Daughter replies 'At the swimming pool'

2. Teacher says 'You have such pretty coats where do you get them?' Daughter says 'Mummy gets them off the peg in the hallway' :lol:
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