Gay

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Re: Gay

Postby lewisham-mer on Mon May 15, 2017 5:05 pm

Rio wrote:It's fashionable. That's why you get a far higher proportion of youngsters professing to be that way inclined at the moment



I hope I have misinterpreted this post (and sincere apologies if I have) but its this type of comment which doesn't help attitudes...

Its not that its fashionable. Its more to do with society has "grown up" and is more accepting, that LGBT people feel more comfortable in expressing - and being - themselves, without any need to hide.

Gay men, historically, have been portrayed on TV as camp, effeminate mincers (John Inman, Larry Grayson, Dick Emery, Charles Hawtrey, and the unbearable Alan Carr etc). Lesbians are portrayed as bearded, cat-loving, dungaree-wearing, axe-wielding man haters. Its the same kind of thing as black actors are either the villains, or the first one to be killed in a horror movie, ie completely unrealistic.
Yes there are some overly camp, irritating, prissy, whining little princesses (who can rustle up a good quiche and make lovely curtains), but these are the ones who are picked out by society as "the norm". Things are starting to change, though. "Normal" recent LGBT characters include Dumbledore, Dr Strange, Deadpool.

But on the other side of the scale, look at the great English tradition of the pantomime: the principal boy is always played by a girl, and the Dame is always a man. No-one bats an eyelid and its widely accepted. There have been men dressing as women for centuries. Shakespeare had cross-dressing characters. Danny La Rue made a fortune in the concert halls. Les Dawson & Roy Barraclough, The Two Ronnies, Kenny Everett, Alastair Sim, Dustin Hoffman, Barry Humphries, Robin Williams, most of Monty Python, Eddie Murphy, Martin Lawrence, all portrayed female characters. Put that into real life and it becomes a problem for some people. A man in a dress in public is either ridiculed, or called a pervert. This leads on to the topic of transitioning.
To make things clear: a person who dresses or feels comfortable in the opposite sex's clothes is a transvestite. A person who's identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex is transgender (ie undertaken a surgical procedure). A man who has had his genitals surgically removed no longer identifies themself as a man, but as a woman. The process is not as straightforward (excuse the pun) as it sounds. A transgender person usually has to undergo years of counselling/support/questions from a medical expert, as well as live as a member of the opposite sex for a certain period (two years, I believe) before their consultant will even recommend surgery.
Then you have to go through the whole issues of work, friends, neighbours, family, society and having to explain that although you were born a boy, you felt trapped in your body and identified as a girl. Its a bit like having to explain to your dad that you want to support the Spuds!

I'm kind of torn between the idea of not needing Gay Pride marches. Its true that the marches were organised to protest about inequality. Now there is equality in law, what is there left to protest about? But... Gay pride is just that. Pride. Its now more of a celebration of the journey from the dark days of being criminals to where we are today. Its to celebrate - and remember - the LGBT people who have helped to shape the world. Where would we all be today without Alan Turing (and look how he was treated: chemical castration or imprisonment), It took almost 60 years to get a posthumous pardon.
Homosexuality was only taken off the World Health Organisation's List of Diseases in 1980. Even today some people think being gay is a mental health condition can be "cured" with conversion therapy. Or by turning to religion (rolls eyes).
The Armed Forces removed its ban on LGBT service men and women in 2000.
Gay Age of Consent lowered to 16 in 2000 (from 18 in 1994 and 21 in 1967). Interesting "straight" sex history here: in 1275 AoC was 12. Raised in 1875 to 13. Raised in 1885 to 16. But the 1533 Buggery Act (thanks Henry VIII) outlawed gay sex until 1967 (in some cases punishable by death). So it was fine to have sex with female children (shock). So I hope you can start to see the absurdity of some of the laws.

We can all fall into a stereotypical role; the beer swilling, pie munching macho man on the terraces with our mates hurling insults and given it all mouth at the opposition, when in reality we'd prefer an organic fruit smoothie, something served with quinoa. and spend time in the library.

With regards to AH's question of roles: it would depend on the couple really and their personalities. You can't really determine who's who in a gay relationship any more you can in a straight one. One could be more dominant in domestic matters but then be a whimpering pussyboy in the bedroom (where do you think "take it like a man" comes from...?) The same way (and i'll stereotype here) that quiet little lady three doors down from you, who wouldn't say boo to a goose in public suddenly becomes the wild dominatrix at a Swingers Club, wearing a skin tight leather basque, whip in hand, crushing your testicles with her 6 inch heels.

Its begs the question - and answer honestly...who really wears the trousers in your household?

One last point on the "fear" that some men have about gay guys, is they don't like the fact that we might fancy them. My question would be: "do you fancy every woman you see?" If not, then what makes you think we're going to make a pass at you?
We all have our "types". Be flattered that we appreciate your beauty, the same way you expect women to appreciate your catcalls and wolf-whistles.

Unless you've got a big beer belly, beard, hairy chest, (lots of) tattoos, and over 40, then I'm not looking twice at you!
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Re: Gay

Postby Monkeybubbles on Mon May 15, 2017 6:03 pm

lewisham-mer wrote:Unless you've got a big beer belly, beard, hairy chest, (lots of) tattoos, and over 40, then I'm not looking twice at you!


:clap:
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Re: Gay

Postby sendô on Mon May 15, 2017 8:34 pm

lewisham-mer wrote:Its begs the question - and answer honestly...who really wears the trousers in your household?

Mrs sendô if she's hungry. She is evil when she's hangry.
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Re: Gay

Postby hammerdivone on Mon May 15, 2017 8:52 pm

Hangry?

edit: I assume a mix of angry and hungry?

Hmmm
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Re: Gay

Postby irongav on Mon May 15, 2017 10:06 pm

lewisham-mer
great posts.
as I fall into the age bracket you refer to as not being so open to accepting gay people, I appreciate you dont mean all, I would just say that in my defence i was raised to go to church where it was deemed wrong [less said the better about that bollox] and my father would not allow even the thought of such things,this is how a lot of my generation were raised i am sure. What was not taking into account in being raised like that, is my mum always taught me to treat people as I expected to be treated myself, best advice i could give to anyone, that coupled with my stubborn nature of not being told what i should think and my lack of tolerance for bullying, i could not give a flying truck what peoples sexual or religious feelings are, if someone treats me right they get the same back, that includes me taking the rise and expecting to have it taken back. Personally believe that when you are happy with who you are and accept your sexuality, you become a more rounded, happy individual in your own right, whats not to like.
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Re: Gay

Postby ageing hammer on Mon May 15, 2017 10:30 pm

Another great post Lewisham, and thanks for answering my question. :thup:
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Re: Gay

Postby the celestial insect on Mon May 15, 2017 11:50 pm

lewisham-mer wrote:With regards to AH's question of roles: it would depend on the couple really and their personalities. You can't really determine who's who in a gay relationship any more you can in a straight one.


I'd just like to echo this. I've been with the other half for coming up 23 years now, and neither of us has a 'role' and neither or us fits a popular stereotype. As ridiculous as it might sound, neither of us really identifies as 'gay' either. It just happened by chance that we met one day and the right person for me, and for him, turned out to be male. I'm into football; his background is engineering, and nobody does the tidying up. Ever. :oops:
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Re: Gay

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Tue May 16, 2017 7:39 am

lewisham-mer wrote:

One last point on the "fear" that some men have about gay guys, is they don't like the fact that we might fancy them. My question would be: "do you fancy every woman you see?" If not, then what makes you think we're going to make a pass at you?


You've made some really great points about homosexuality in the last few days lewisham-mer, but the above comment is a stereotypical view about straight men, that by and large just isn't true. Its also a bit patronising AND insulting.
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Re: Gay

Postby Clacton-ammer on Tue May 16, 2017 8:20 am

I don't see that Eggy at all.

Football changing rooms as an example, seen it/heard it, men being men (many), think they are irresistible, gods gift etc., I think lewish point stands. We all have what "turns us on", I like petite birds mainly, with a nice arse and legs. Chubber comes onto me, she aint getting none. My gay mate, likes the muscle types, only ever seen him with his type. One of his/our mates likes older men, again, only ever seen him with his type. My mate likes women generally, he will fook anything, and I mean anything. My point is, we are all individuals and mainly, like "our" type.
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Re: Gay

Postby btajim - mcfc on Tue May 16, 2017 8:51 am

From my understanding, scientific research concludes that none of us are 100% straight or gay. We're all on a sort of sliding scale and find our own identity as feelings develop.

Acceptance is better and better all the time. Manchester's Canal Street was a safe haven for the LGBT community but it's now just as common to see them out socialising elsewhere as opposed to amongst their own.
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Re: Gay

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Tue May 16, 2017 9:10 am

Clacton-ammer wrote:I don't see that Eggy at all.

Football changing rooms as an example, seen it/heard it, men being men (many), think they are irresistible, gods gift etc., I think lewish point stands. We all have what "turns us on", I like petite birds mainly, with a nice arse and legs. Chubber comes onto me, she aint getting none. My gay mate, likes the muscle types, only ever seen him with his type. One of his/our mates likes older men, again, only ever seen him with his type. My mate likes women generally, he will fook anything, and I mean anything. My point is, we are all individuals and mainly, like "our" type.


TBH Clackers, it was the "fear" part I don't agree with.
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Re: Gay

Postby Hammers Dad on Tue May 16, 2017 9:21 am

Rio wrote:It's fashionable. That's why you get a far higher proportion of youngsters professing to be that way inclined at the moment
lewisham-mer wrote:I hope I have misinterpreted this post (and sincere apologies if I have) but its this type of comment which doesn't help attitudes...

I agree with Rio, it does appear that it is more prevalent for youngsters to declare themselves as bi, even if they don't actually do the deed. I don't see anything wrong with that as it does make it appear "normal" for someone to be bi or gay, rather than the attitudes of old that meant it was kept behind closed doors. Now it is accepted as part of every day life as it should be.

The more you have something, the more commonplace it is, the less you think about it as being "different". That can only help attitudes in my opinion.
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Re: Gay

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Tue May 16, 2017 11:09 am

lewisham-mer wrote:
Unless you've got a big beer belly, beard, hairy chest, (lots of) tattoos, and over 40, then I'm not looking twice at you!


So , you're attracted to 85% of the British male population then . :)


Sorry , Lewisham , great post , mate .
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Re: Gay

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Tue May 16, 2017 11:12 am

Hammers Dad wrote:

The more you have something, the more commonplace it is, the less you think about it as being "different". That can only help attitudes in my opinion.


Quite agree - unless that old ' fashionable ' sport of Gay Bashing becomes fashionable again as happened in Portsmouth recently .
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Re: Gay

Postby hammerdivone on Tue May 16, 2017 12:41 pm

The Old Man of Storr wrote: Quite agree - unless that old ' fashionable ' sport of Gay Bashing becomes fashionable again as happened in Portsmouth recently .

Resurrected by our Eastern European visitors TOMOS, not locals
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Re: Gay

Postby the celestial insect on Tue May 16, 2017 1:05 pm

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Re: Gay

Postby 'stone hammer on Tue May 16, 2017 7:40 pm

the celestial insect wrote:Speaks for itself...

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016 ... rexit-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Speaks for itself in relation to what? Genuine question
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Re: Gay

Postby the celestial insect on Tue May 16, 2017 7:48 pm

'stone hammer wrote:
Speaks for itself in relation to what? Genuine question


In relation to the idea that a rise in homophobic hate crime is necessarily due to people coming from overseas (above post), and in relation to the continued need for vigilance and events like Pride. The latter is something that I've wondered about myself in recent years.
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Re: Gay

Postby DasNutNock on Tue May 16, 2017 8:12 pm

Is it true that gay men favour darts weighted at 23g and under?
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Re: Gay

Postby the celestial insect on Tue May 16, 2017 8:15 pm

DasNutNock wrote:Is it true that gay men favour darts weighted at 23g and under?


It's a phallusy.
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