A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby Tenbury on Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:49 pm

Interesting stuff, Mushy. Especially the distraction.
I've been lonely all my life,never more so than when in company.Sometimes it can really get me down but by and large, after all this time I just accept it.If there really was a God, he'd have done a lot better than this.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby Samba on Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:12 am

Tenbury wrote:Interesting stuff, Mushy. Especially the distraction.
I've been lonely all my life,never more so than when in company.Sometimes it can really get me down but by and large, after all this time I just accept it.If there really was a God, he'd have done a lot better than this.

Ah, see Tenners, that's what you get, working in the West Ham trophy room..

Does make me smile a little when the religious call life, 'Intelligent Design'..

Really interesting post, Tenners.
Do you think depression has caused your loneliness or the other way round?
I'm beginning to think that the feeling of loneliness (as you wisely point out) can actually be unrelated to whether there's other people around or near you. It's more to do I think, with one's current state of mind & one's past.
There must be a reason why some people are really ok with being completely alone while others, as you say, can still feel lonely, in a crowd.
So the good news, it would seem, is that we don't have to rely on other people to stop us from feeling lonely. The answer though, is still being wondered about..
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby PrawnSandwich on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:12 am

I feel for everyone struggling on this thread and have a great deal of empathy.

I have my second session of therapy tonight about the inability to move past grief and how it has poisoned nearly every element of my life for nearly three years.
Doing the course that RARS put up has led to some interest insights and I have been studying lots of stuff about CBT and reading The Happiness Trap by Russ Harris and it is sad to say I am a classic case of all the signs being there and me being the one to not recognise them.
Also waiting for an interview for CBT but sadly that's not until the 1st April (irony?).

Sadly I think that there is little way back for my wife and I and we'll have to separate - probably sooner than I imagined or hoped and it's going to be very hard on everyone especially my little boy.
I want to do all that I can to make sure he isn't damaged by this and really want to work on maintaining a good relationship with his mother for his sake - all he has known is the three of us united and together.

My wife has spent so much time gearing up for this moment and strapping on armour to be the bad guy in all this that now despite me reacting calmly and trying desperately to make our time together harmonious is trying to push my buttons to get a rise out of me.
I am not saying that this is her fault but the major thing that has struck me is how her dislike of confrontation has lead to her internalising all her thoughts, feelings and hurt for the last two and a half years.

Even now she is not really communicating with me not matter how much I plead and try to make it clear I want to be there for the kids if I can't be there for her.
It is just a sad situation.
She is the turtle, I am the hailstorm and my anxiety is tying me in knots and making decisions that annoy her and she'll agree to them only to then throw them back at me.
I get it, she's hurt, she's wrestling with the enormity of what is about to happen.

It's been a rollarcoaster of a few weeks where I have felt euphoric on one hand and planned how to commit suicide several times over so as to leave her with the house and no mortgage, the kids are young enough to forget me etc.

But I am still here.
I have had one drink since the 12th January and that was at a meal between the two of us to clear the air and make a pact to get on for our children's sake (she flipped on that the next day), I have been exercising, meditating and drinking **** herbal teas instead of 6 coffees like the ghost of our flip flop wearing friend Hambrosia Stu and I haven't had any weed at all despite it still being in the house - I am giving it to a friend who smokes tomorrow.

I need to face up to the fact that I need to start living for me and for the opportunity to see my children, whom I love more than life itself.
I need to put aside any hope of reconciliation - whether that comes a year, two years down the line or never - and concentrate on maintaining a civility in order to get on with my life.
It's heart breaking as I have spent nearly every day of the last 11 years with that woman, but I am paying the price for my mistakes and I can't fix this whilst consumed with sorrow and anxiety about the situation as it turns out the biggest trigger for half of this is the woman I love.

Take care everyone, catch you soon.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby prince_huggy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:34 am

Top post, Prawny. Well done for sharing all of that. Well done for not falling back on drinking and/or smoking. I'm so sorry to hear that it has come to this.

One thing I've learnt over the past few years is that love never fails and if you apply this when it comes to your children, then they will never forget your efforts.

Keep it up and keep it positive.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby S-H on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:40 am

All the best Prawny, wish you nothing but happiness moving forward.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby ageing hammer on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:58 am

Well done Prawny with breaking those habits and trying to move forward and be a better person.

I think yours is a heartbreaking story but I think there may be many on here I am sure who have been through similar and they can help you along the way. The CBT will also be of great benefit to you

I wish you all the best mate and keep going you are doing really well and we are all rooting for you. :)
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby Tenbury on Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:26 pm

Prawny , your kids need you full stop. I've looked over the edge ,more than once, but that's a terrible legacy to leave them. With time, and help, you'll plot a path through this, in truth it seems like you've begun already. There will be ups and downs. It's natural to feel overwhelmed by sorrow, that's something only time can ease , and I guess it's natural to feel guilt too, but that's entirely negative, stuff just happens, you can't change what's past, nor should you allow it to damage the future.Learn from it ....maybe, dwell on it....what's that achieve?
Grab all the help you can, from wherever it's offered, well done for keeping off the sauce.
Remember if you're ever at rock bottom 116 123....they don't judge you,they just listen. Best Wishes.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby mushy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:24 pm

Tenbury wrote:Interesting stuff, Mushy. Especially the distraction.
I've been lonely all my life,never more so than when in company.Sometimes it can really get me down but by and large, after all this time I just accept it.If there really was a God, he'd have done a lot better than this.

Its more common then you may think Tenbury.
I myself often felt lonely when I was married, even with three kids at home, how mad does that sound?
It was probably one of the main reasons why the marriage didnt work.
Its also one of the reasons why I dont really fancy getting married again.
The irony being of course that it means I am probably destined to spend my remaining days largely on my own.
On the other hand, you never know.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby mushy on Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:59 pm

Christ Prawny, what a thoroughly honest and heart breaking post.
That's about as tough as it gets, well done, very well done for having the bollox to post that.

Mate, my thoughts are with you, that's all I can offer right now, sorry.
One big big important question though, you obviously do not have to answer.
Are you still having the suicidal thoughts, and how serious would you say your suicidal plan has been in the past?
I reiterate, you don't have to answer any of this.
Take very good care.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby Samba on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:47 pm

PrawnSandwich wrote:But I am still here.
I have had one drink since the 12th January and that was at a meal between the two of us to clear the air and make a pact to get on for our children's sake (she flipped on that the next day), I have been exercising, meditating and drinking **** herbal teas instead of 6 coffees like the ghost of our flip flop wearing friend Hambrosia Stu and I haven't had any weed at all despite it still being in the house - I am giving it to a friend who smokes tomorrow.
I need to face up to the fact that I need to start living for me and for the opportunity to see my children, whom I love more than life itself.
I need to put aside any hope of reconciliation - whether that comes a year, two years down the line or never - and concentrate on maintaining a civility in order to get on with my life.
Take care everyone, catch you soon.

Hi, PS.
I & I'm sure everyone on this thread, feels for you, so much. Break ups are so common aren't they? but that doesn't make your sadness any less. As Tenbury says, your children are so much better off WITH you, in their lives, even though things have changed now, to what they were.
The things that you have been trying to change can only help you, in the long run, so that YOUR life will be better. One day I hope you will look back on this time & say, yeah, it was bloody tough but, in the end, things are better now.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby -DL- on Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:29 pm

Prawny,

I don't know if this will be any consolation or if it will help in any way - but I hope it will. Some of it may be a tad brutal in it's honesty, but please realise none of it is said to make you feel worse.

I went through identical with my wife a few years ago - and the changes were made by me, and we're still together. Only just, but this time it's my decision, but that's not relevant to this.

My life was also consumed by alcohol; and weed. It seemed like that was what mattered to me more than her and more than the kids. Oh, I made all the promises that I will knock it on the head and stuff, but it still took a while for me to do it in the end, and I almost lost her - but reading your post just then, made me want to put my arms through the screen and shake you. Really dude, if the weed was so much of a problem between the two of you, you should have got rid of it straight away - I know you're going to now, and I sincerely hope that it's not too late. Getting rid of it straight away would have spoke volumes. She's got to believe you want to change, and whilst deep down you know you want to, she needs to be convinced of that. Same as the booze. Looking back, if the booze is also an issue, having even 'just the one' whilst having the meal was probably a test that you didn't pass. It's got to be none or she won't believe you or be convinced. Complete abstinence for a period of time will be the only way to get her to believe you're properly changing.

Reading between the lines, and granted I'm only reading one side of the story, I actually feel that she probably doesn't want to split up with you - because I can most certainly read that you don't want to split with her.

The big BUT is, she needs to know and see that you HAVE changed, or at least ARE changing - and she then needs to see that it's not going to be a temporary measure, and that things are not going to go back the way they were.

Now I hear what you're saying about her being part of the cause of how you're feeling, her making you feel low - but take a step back a minute. Is it really her as part of the reason, or is it because for so long now you've seen life through a haze of weed smoke and alcohol that you've actually become detached from reality? Because you really cannot underestimate just how much both of those screw with your feelings and emotions.

Get clean dude, knock everything on the head, totally. No half measures, no 'I'll get rid of it tomorrow'. Do it now if you haven't already.

There were very good reasons why you and her got together, fell in love and had a child together. They are not the same reasons as to why you're both now on the precipice.

Work at it mate, because it may not be over yet - but as I have already said, she needs to see the new you, and it's not going to happen over night.

Date her again, get a baby sitter, go out for a meal, a walk along the coast or wherever, alcohol free. Hold her hand in public, look her in the eye. Make her feel like a woman, partner again. Because it's sometimes easy to forget in the rat-race, that when you have kids and a job, you two are still actually a couple.

I wish you both the very best of luck. Because you've probably already got what makes you the happiest. You just need to convince her it's her and your family, and you'll do whatever it damn well takes, with nothing done half halfheartedly. If you can't, then perhaps you should be the one that walks away, for your own benefit, and your family's.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby Tenbury on Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:24 pm

DL.
Some of the best stuff I've ever read on the internet.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby Samba on Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:34 pm

Tenbury wrote:DL. Some of the best stuff I've ever read on the internet.

:thup: Testimony from those that have lived it, is so powerful.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:07 am

PrawnSandwich wrote:



Even now she is not really communicating with me not matter how much I plead and try to make it clear I want to be there for the kids if I can't be there for her.
It is just a sad situation.
She is the turtle, I am the hailstorm and my anxiety is tying me in knots and making decisions that annoy her and she'll agree to them only to then throw them back at me.
I get it, she's hurt, she's wrestling with the enormity of what is about to happen.



But I am still here.
I have had one drink since the 12th January and that was at a meal between the two of us to clear the air and make a pact to get on for our children's sake (she flipped on that the next day), I have been exercising, meditating and drinking **** herbal teas instead of 6 coffees like the ghost of our flip flop wearing friend Hambrosia Stu and I haven't had any weed at all despite it still being in the house - I am giving it to a friend who smokes tomorrow.

I need to face up to the fact that I need to start living for me and for the opportunity to see my children, whom I love more than life itself.
I need to put aside any hope of reconciliation - whether that comes a year, two years down the line or never - and concentrate on maintaining a civility in order to get on with my life.
It's heart breaking as I have spent nearly every day of the last 11 years with that woman, but I am paying the price for my mistakes and I can't fix this whilst consumed with sorrow and anxiety about the situation as it turns out the biggest trigger for half of this is the woman I love.

Take care everyone, catch you soon.


If you could prove to your wife that you're serious about changing would she be at all interested in carrying on with the relationship ?

Have you asked her that ?

Tell her you're willing to stop drinking and smoking forever , tell her that you'll never even drink a glass of wine with dinner again whether she stays or not - tell her you want her in your life forever and that you'll do anything to keep her .

That is all you can do , the rest is up to her .

Look after yourself though - don't punish yourself further .

I hope you both can start again , with each other .
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby PrawnSandwich on Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:01 am

I'll send you a PM if I may DL, but thank you for this post.
I hear what you are saying and not afraid of hearing hard truths.
I'm making mistakes because I am still emotional and raw - she hasn't walked up to this quickly so I am dealing with a person who has a clear map in her head of what she wants, whilst I can barely comprehend that we aren't making plans together at the weekend...

-DL- wrote:Work at it mate, because it may not be over yet - but as I have already said, she needs to see the new you, and it's not going to happen over night.

Date her again, get a baby sitter, go out for a meal, a walk along the coast or wherever, alcohol free. Hold her hand in public, look her in the eye. Make her feel like a woman, partner again. Because it's sometimes easy to forget in the rat-race, that when you have kids and a job, you two are still actually a couple.

I wish you both the very best of luck. Because you've probably already got what makes you the happiest. You just need to convince her it's her and your family, and you'll do whatever it damn well takes, with nothing done half halfheartedly. If you can't, then perhaps you should be the one that walks away, for your own benefit, and your family's.


I am trying everyday, believe me, the wine was an error in judgement, the weed is a total non-issue as frankly she's telling me I don't have to give up anything.
It may be a test, it may be because she's geared up to not care about certain things, it may be that she doesn't view it as big a problem as I do.
She never asked me or identified them as problems for the record.
However as a sufferer of depression and anxiety I know they have become a major factor in keeping me in a black hole.
My life consisted of waiting til she went to bed to crack the bottle, hit the vape etc. so she just got the tired, hungover, miserable side effects.

I can't date her, I have tried that route and she is not interested, holding hands is totally off the cards.
I am coming more and more to the point where we may have to separate sooner rather than later to really appreciate what we had together.
It may cost the house I have spent four years building and working on but last night I just thought '**** it', it;s just a house.

TOMOS - I have asked her and the answer is a resound no.
She loves me as a person and the father of her children, but she is not in love with me as the last two and a half years has changed me to the point where she is not in love with me.

She is not interested in therapy, in talking, in resolving this.
She's changed in ten years from a shy girl into a confident woman and I have crumbled.
I have changed so much in the last four weeks and am still working everyday but again she is stubborn bless her and 'once her mind is made up, her mind is made up'.

My reality is that I have to be self reliant and we will be separating.
Where we go after that is anyone's guess but I am not going to give up hope.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby PrawnSandwich on Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:26 am

mushy wrote:Christ Prawny, what a thoroughly honest and heart breaking post.
That's about as tough as it gets, well done, very well done for having the bollox to post that.

Mate, my thoughts are with you, that's all I can offer right now, sorry.
One big big important question though, you obviously do not have to answer.
Are you still having the suicidal thoughts, and how serious would you say your suicidal plan has been in the past?
I reiterate, you don't have to answer any of this.
Take very good care.


Thank you - and to everyone on this thread for listening.

Well, pretty much every Sunday at the moment.
My wife returned to work from Maternity Leave 2 weeks ago and had left a position she fought and clawed for over several years. Once of the reason my son went into full time nursery was so my wife could still have her career.
Just before she went off to have our daughter her boss was sacked and the department restructured.
On return her job wasn't there any more and they have sold her on a position that was 'equally comparable' but in reality it has been a double demotion (for the same pay) and has seen her career prospects limited so right now she is in a very bad place emotionally herself.

This happened after our implosion, but instead of returning to work to give her space, distance and fulfillment it has now left her in her own low place.

Sundays are tough as she visibly changes in her attitude because she doesn't want to go - there may be an opportunity for an out into another department but that will take time - and as a result I get to Sunday morning on a high and she crashes that mood because she is distant, distracted and on edge.
I get it and I don't blame her.
But again to me, for my naivety and lack of attention, it is like I woke up one morning and my best friend said we could no longer be friends.
But not drinking etc and a lot of work on CBT methods is meaning that although I have A LOT of dark thoughts there is a brief crack of light that holds me back.
Especially the fact that Sundays are turning out to be my days with the kids.
I need to focus on them and not what isn't going to be.

My therapist has my GP number as well :P
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby -DL- on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:23 am

Prawny,

Feel free to PM mate :thup:
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby PrawnSandwich on Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:28 am

-DL- wrote:Prawny,

Feel free to PM mate :thup:

Cheers chief.
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:43 am

Prawn S .

Forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here - but could it be that your wife has been suffering from post natal depression or is depressed over the lack of opportunity at work ?

If she's already made up her mind to leave there might not be anything you can do , but I've seen this situation before with one of my ex-workmates - she told him that she was unhappy with the marriage [ of several years - 2 children etc ] and to give her space he left the family home and was allowed to live in one of the holiday cottages the estate we worked for had lying empty as it was winter . I'd gradually noticed a change of mood in Sam , he'd gone from being a joke a minute to being totally fed up of the work banter - he actually lost it with me one day , stormed off when he was loading the bucket of the digger I was driving - then it transpired he was having marriage problems . We gathered round him , gave him all the support we could , then around 3 months later his wife changed her mind and they got back together again .

It could be the case with your wife , I'm not saying it is 100% , just could be .

You've bared your soul on here , Prawn and we all feel for you , mate - the best thing you can do now is get your self respect back - ditch the drink and the drugs - prove to your wife that you can be a decent father - decent fathers don't do ' drink and drugs ' - separate if you must - look after the kids alternate weekends [ if she'll agree - you MUST prove that you're capable of being trusted with them ] - then when she comes to see that you are a decent man / father once more she may well accept you back into the family home as her partner / lifelong friend .

The best of luck , my friend .
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Re: Mental Health (free course starting 28th Jan 2019 - page 66)

Postby PrawnSandwich on Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:12 pm

The Old Man of Storr wrote:Forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here - but could it be that your wife has been suffering from post natal depression or is depressed over the lack of opportunity at work ?

In truth I believe that could be part of the problem - she suffered really badly with it after my son was born but we dealt with that.
This time it might have been delayed. The truth of my children's birth has left her unable to have anymore children so this has bee coupled with a feeling of dread because she'll never do it again (she only wanted two but the point is...)
Work she had convinced herself was a bad idea before she went back and to be honest she's probably not giving it a chance.
It's been a rough five years on the family and it could be that has impacted significantly, but later than immediately post natal...

If she's already made up her mind to leave there might not be anything you can do , but I've seen this situation before with one of my ex-workmates - she told him that she was unhappy with the marriage [ of several years - 2 children etc ] and to give her space he left the family home and was allowed to live in one of the holiday cottages the estate we worked for had lying empty as it was winter . I'd gradually noticed a change of mood in Sam , he'd gone from being a joke a minute to being totally fed up of the work banter - he actually lost it with me one day , stormed off when he was loading the bucket of the digger I was driving - then it transpired he was having marriage problems . We gathered round him , gave him all the support we could , then around 3 months later his wife changed her mind and they got back together again .


This may be the short term answer, we will be finding all the legal obligations and implications and I do have a friend who I can stay with in the interim that I may have to go to, just to see how it shakes out and still retain our family home in the hope that this is only temporary and fixable.
My anxiety over not seeing the kids and being alone is probably the thing stopping me right now.
After this weekend I will probably have a clearer picture.


You've bared your soul on here , Prawn and we all feel for you , mate - the best thing you can do now is get your self respect back - ditch the drink and the drugs - prove to your wife that you can be a decent father - decent fathers don't do ' drink and drugs ' - separate if you must - look after the kids alternate weekends [ if she'll agree - you MUST prove that you're capable of being trusted with them ] - then when she comes to see that you are a decent man / father once more she may well accept you back into the family home as her partner / lifelong friend .

The best of luck , my friend .


Thank you, and thank you all again for listening.
Irony is all this **** went on after the kids went to bed and I am the parent who is playing with them, bathing them, first to go to them in the night.
I have looked after the children countless times on my own so that trust is there, I am the more hands on parent and she knows I am more than capable.
It's our relationship I have neglected and damaged.

But yeah, no drink, no drugs, rational emotions.
This place is a massive help.
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