The Mental Health Thread - (Help Contacts in First Post).

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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Wed May 15, 2019 8:58 pm

Cockneyboy311 wrote:Going to visit my mate for the first time on Sunday who is in a secure psychiatric hospital in East London. I'm looking forward to seeing him but also worried that he's going to be 'away with the fairies' and it's going to be an upsetting experience. I need to go though. He'd do the same for me if roles were reversed. Fingers crossed it goes ok :|

Try not to show your upset or shock to him, Cb. Keep in mind, he is still him but an unwell him.
If he has his mobile with him, maybe take him some phone credit. If he hasn't, maybe some writing paper, envelopes & stamps so that he knows that he can contact people on the outside, if he needs to.
Yes, this is a rough time for him atm but it may actually be a turning point in his life into getting better.
As you say, fingers crossed.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Wed May 15, 2019 9:37 pm

-DL- wrote:This weekend has been a real struggle. I've been feeling really down, like there's like a big cloud above me. Tried to speak to the wife about it, but her default answer is 'how can you be feeling like that after your news Wednesday, I thought you'd be buzzing still'.
I feel like I'm on my own at the moment, as I'm being brushed off with simplistic answers when I try to talk about how I'm feeling with her, when sometimes just a cuddle or a hug would suffice, rather than just being told I'm fine, not to worry about it, or other things that ultimately mean nothing.
I'm sat here again on my own, same as I do every other day, because I'm feeling to crap to join them.
I know I've got to walk before I can run, but I just want to start feeling relatively normal again, and to start living a more normal life. It just seems to be such a way off, and the thought of feeling like this for the foreseeable sucks.

Been thinking about your post from the 6th, DL. Yes, I am weird..
I really think that what you were feeling was pure depression. What they call exogenous or reactive depression, caused by going through pretty traumatic events in your life.
The good news is that as you progress to better health, it should lift, as there was a 'real' reason for it.
That being said, the depression that you were experiencing was every bit as bad as any other depression.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Cockneyboy311 on Thu May 16, 2019 1:10 pm

Samba wrote:Try not to show your upset or shock to him, Cb. Keep in mind, he is still him but an unwell him.
If he has his mobile with him, maybe take him some phone credit. If he hasn't, maybe some writing paper, envelopes & stamps so that he knows that he can contact people on the outside, if he needs to.
Yes, this is a rough time for him atm but it may actually be a turning point in his life into getting better.
As you say, fingers crossed.


Cheers Samba (and TOMOS). We're not allowed to take anything in at all, and i don't think he's allowed a phone. From what his sister described it sounds very much like a prison with all of the security in place. :arry:
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby mushy on Thu May 16, 2019 3:58 pm

Samba wrote:I really think that what you were feeling was pure depression. What they call exogenous or reactive depression, caused by going through pretty traumatic events in your life.
The good news is that as you progress to better health, it should lift, as there was a 'real' reason for it.
That being said, the depression that you were experiencing was every bit as bad as any other depression.

Samba, that's some expert knowledge and diagnosis going on there, very helpful.
Are you part of a mental health team?
(apologies if you have mentioned this before).
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Thu May 16, 2019 10:52 pm

mushy wrote:Samba, that's some expert knowledge and diagnosis going on there, very helpful.
Are you part of a mental health team?
(apologies if you have mentioned this before).

No, I'm not mushy. Just very interested in all of this.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby pablo jaye on Fri May 17, 2019 5:42 pm

Cockneyboy311 - it’s a very kind thing to do, going to see your pal - and quite often the first time in a new environment is difficult. It would be good to hear how you found it, as there may be others that might benefit from your experience.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Fri May 17, 2019 6:01 pm

The David Harewood psychosis programme that was on last night, I thought was really excellent.
I haven't seen the Nadiya one on anxiety yet.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Tenbury on Sat May 18, 2019 8:53 am

When does 'increasing awareness ' become just another spectator sport?
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Toulouse_Iron on Sat May 18, 2019 10:42 am

Hello all, I stumbled on this article in the Grauniad about "Andy's Man Club", an organisation set up by a former Rugby League player after the suicide of his brother-in-law.
Firstly, it could help some of us: it seems like a real life version of this thread...
Secondly, it raises an interesting point: Mental health issues, their vocabulary and even the types of therapy are dealt with in a very feminised and middle-class way, which can alienate "Ordinary blokes", as we are not wired the same way. A very interesting read:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/mar/09/our-goal-is-to-halve-the-male-suicide-rate-why-no-frills-therapy-works-for-men
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby RichieRiv on Sat May 18, 2019 11:42 am

Tenbury wrote:When does 'increasing awareness ' become just another spectator sport?


A very good question, but I suppose that can only be answered by individual viewers.

I watched the programme last night about 3 squaddies that took their own lives. All 3 were suffering with PTSD, with one also being diagnosed with testicular cancer. He overdosed on morphine.

It was so incredibly sad, but that sadness transferred into anger at the MOD who are pushing the problem onto the NHS who are ill-equipped to deal with battle stress. Government funding was pulled from the charity Combat Stress who were desperately trying to plug the gap. My brother-in-law was actually made redundant as a result. A Royal Navy trained PTSD specialist, with a tour of Kosovo under his belt.

As much as I don't want to underplay David Harewood's and cake bakers mental health issues, there is a scale.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Tenbury on Sat May 18, 2019 12:42 pm

I'm glad you raise that. The same thing is happening in civvy st. Three years ago our local MH base consisted of 3 shrinks + 1 probationary and 2 full-time Community Mental Health Nurses (the people who come and visit you at home). Now, despite apparently there being increased funding, there are 2 shrinks and 1part time CMHN. The average wait for a referral from the G P is 12 weeks. This may well be the sort of stuff you'd expect from some decrepit old egalitarian git like me, but even in economic terms it makes no sense whatsoever.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby mushy on Sat May 18, 2019 2:03 pm

Toulouse_Iron wrote:Hello all, I stumbled on this article in the Grauniad about "Andy's Man Club", an organisation set up by a former Rugby League player after the suicide of his brother-in-law.
Firstly, it could help some of us: it seems like a real life version of this thread...
Secondly, it raises an interesting point: Mental health issues, their vocabulary and even the types of therapy are dealt with in a very feminised and middle-class way, which can alienate "Ordinary blokes", as we are not wired the same way. A very interesting read:
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/mar/09/our-goal-is-to-halve-the-male-suicide-rate-why-no-frills-therapy-works-for-men

Very good article which I agree with.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Sun May 19, 2019 2:47 am

Tenbury wrote:Now, despite apparently there being increased funding, there are 2 shrinks and 1part time CMHN. The average wait for a referral from the G P is 12 weeks. This may well be the sort of stuff you'd expect from some decrepit old egalitarian git like me, but even in economic terms it makes no sense whatsoever.

Yes, it just shows us we have to always try to read behind the bs.
'Increased funding' (but what they don't say is), for one area of treatment or people at the expense of another area of treatment or people.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby bristolhammerfc on Sun May 19, 2019 3:04 pm

Have been taking part in Mental Health Awareness week at work and it has been revealing just how many people were keeping to themselves that they were suffering.

Hopefully, having those conversations and signposting helped out a bit

https://news.bristol.gov.uk/news/bristo ... -week-2019
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 pm

Toulouse_Iron wrote:Hello all, I stumbled on this article in the Grauniad about "Andy's Man Club", an organisation set up by a former Rugby League player after the suicide of his brother-in-law.

Although these groups are obviously completely well meaning, as 'user-led' groups, I have some concerns, as to safeguarding issues.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby mushy on Mon May 20, 2019 12:04 am

Samba wrote:Although these groups are obviously completely well meaning, as 'user-led' groups, I have some concerns, as to safeguarding issues.

Go on........
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Mon May 20, 2019 5:05 am

Sorry, cut & pasted, cos I'm a bit tired, mushy!

'There are several limitations of self-help groups for mental health, including but not limited to their inability to keep detailed records, lack of formal procedures to follow up with members, absence of formal screening procedures for new members, lack formal leadership training, and likely inability of members to recognize a "newcomer" presenting with a serious illness requiring immediate treatment. Additionally, there is a lack of professional or legal regulatory constraints determining how such groups can operate, there is a danger that members may disregard the advice of mental health professionals, and there can be an anti-therapeutic suppression of ambivalence and hostility. Researchers have also elaborated specific criticisms regarding self-help groups' formulaic approach, attrition rates, over-generalization, and "panacea complex'.

'Formulaic approach:
Researchers have questioned whether formulaic approaches to self-help group therapy, like the Twelve Steps, could stifle creativity or if adherence to them may prevent the group from making useful or necessary changes. Similarly others have criticized self-help group structure as being too rigid'.

'High attrition rates:
There is not a universal appeal of self-help groups; as few as 17% of people invited to attend a self-help group will do so. Of those, only one third will stay for longer than four months. Those who continue are people who value the meetings and the self-help group experience'.

'Overgeneralization:
Since these groups are not specifically diagnosis-related, but rather for anyone seeking mental and emotional health, they may not provide the necessary sense of community to evoke feelings of oneness required for recovery in self-help groups. Referent power is only one factor contributing to group effectiveness. A study of Schizophrenics Anonymous found expert power to be more influential in measurements of perceived group helpfulness'.

'Panacea complex:
There is a risk that self-help group members may come to believe that group participation is a panacea—that the group's processes can remedy any problem'.

Obviously, slightly less of a potential problem in all-male groups, but still..

'Sexual predation and opportunism:
Often membership of non-associated self help groups is run by volunteers. Monitoring of relationships and standards of conduct are seldom formalized within a group and is done on a self regulating basis. This can mean undesirable and unethical initiation of sexual and intimate encounters are facilitated in these settings. Predatory and opportunistic behaviour in these environments which by association involve divulging volatile mental states, medication changes and life circumstances mean opportunities by those willing to leverage information that is often normally guarded and deeply personal, is a risk more-so than in other social meetup settings or professionally governed bodies'.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby S-H on Mon May 20, 2019 5:34 am

Samba I don't know what you're getting at with this to be honest, those groups are really no different to this thread, apart from the face to face interactions they share, it's just about encouraging men to open up about their mental health.

As far as I'm aware there are no mental health professionals giving out advice in here, on the whole it's about listening, supporting encouraging.

Fair play to anyone who is willing to open up to other strangers, there cant be many things harder in life, especially doing it face to face.
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Samba on Mon May 20, 2019 6:43 am

S-H wrote:Samba I don't know what you're getting at with this to be honest, those groups are really no different to this thread, apart from the face to face interactions they share, it's just about encouraging men to open up about their mental health.

I'm not condemning or really criticising these groups SH, it's really great that they are being set up, I just have some concerns, that's all.
Let's say you're going to a group, one week someone turns up (new or regular) drunk or on drugs. What do you do? Who's in charge?
Or someone's got a personality disorder (that they or you don't know about or understand) & it affects the group adversely. Or for any other reason, that one or more of the group affect the group adversely.
Things could very quickly get out of hand without someone 'in charge' &/or trained (at least a little bit) to rein things in.
I guess a similar situation is what is the different experience between a well moderated internet site & one that doesn't have any moderation at all. I was made aware that this thread has hardly needed any moderation but I'm really talking about the rest of the site!
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Re: A thread to discuss depression and other mental issues...

Postby Tenbury on Mon May 20, 2019 7:31 am

S-H wrote:
As far as I'm aware there are no mental health professionals giving out advice in here, on the whole it's about listening, supporting encouraging.

Fair play to anyone who is willing to open up to other strangers, there cant be many things harder in life, especially doing it face to face.


That's the point though...face to face.That changes everything.( not sure why,it just does). One of the infinitely small number of good things about the internet is the unique situation whereby you can be alarmingly open while remaining anonymous....much less pressure.I often think it would be really good to meet all these people I spend so much time talking to, in reality it'd probably an embarrassingly awkward disaster.
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