Fatbergs

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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Shanghai Hammer on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:33 pm

sendô wrote:It always blocks in the same place because my ****hole neighbours keep flushing wet wipes down the toilet, which get caught on the bend/join where the pipe to the street meets the man hole, and muggings here has to dust off his drain rods to clear it if he doesn't want to suffer the stench of **** throughout the house.


If the connection point is in the street complain to the water company about it. Say the water backs up into your house or something. The reason for complaining is that the performance of water companies are judged by OFWAT on the numbers and types of complaints so where they do the maintenance is directly related to who complains the loudest and most. They may end up relaying this section or at least rodding it for you.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby sendô on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:08 pm

It's not in the street.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Shanghai Hammer on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:34 pm

sendô wrote:It's not in the street.


Ah, I guess its out with the drain rods again then.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Burningaham on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:15 pm

[/quote]

Partly true. However upgrading the pumping stations would potentially work. Putting in heavy duty macerating pumps for example. However as always it comes down to money. To upgrade all pumping stations would probably be in the 100's of millions per water company.

We have a particular problem in the UK with old sewers. We have one of the oldest networks in the World and they are cracking and leaking letting a lot of ground water in. All bad conditions that will allow wet wipes to collect and build up, mixed with fat. So to solve it properly most of the sewers would have to be re-laid, probably at a steeper gradient.

The issue about 1 in 20 or 1 in 50 storms shouldn't even be an issue as sewers should be designed to pass sewage and storm drains should deal with the surface water. However the cracked sewers means that its not that simple and they do collect a lot of storm water.

I'm currently advising some water companies overseas about the impacts of climate change on their operations too. This is expected to increase flood peaks and, as always, this will make things worse and not better.

So while its theoretically possible to address the issue it's damn difficult.[\quote]


Lots of different points there. Yes upgrading some pumpstations would help, but the last thIng you’d put in would be larger macerating pumps. Larger solids handling pumps are much more effective. All macerating impellers by their nature are designed to ‘grind’ and cut rather than move larger solids. This has two effects, as well as any sort of rag wrapping around the impellers, grinding the sewage actually starts the sewage breakdown process too earlier (ie before it reaches the treatment plant). This is a problem for the treatment plant, and locally to where the pump station is, lots of smells.

I used the surface water return period as a design comparison, to demonstrate how Difficult it is to design out all risks. What should or shouldn’t happen in design in the uk is a bit of a moot point I agree, as there are thousands of combined surface and waste sewers.

I think climate change will have some hidden effects on our waste infrastructure. For instance as people try to save money, more waterless urinals and low water wc are being installed. So sewage is becoming less diluted, and ‘stronger’ - more difficult to process.

I’m presenting a white paper on this to British Water very soon, as a follow up to my work on FOG a couple of years ago.
And again, you are right; it is all about the money and how they spend it. Only spending money in 18 months of a 5 year AMP period is a ridiculous way to operate, and always has been.

You may also have seen my previous posts in ‘things you always wanted to know’ on the reasons for the lack of white dog poo sightings in recent years.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby RichieRiv on Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:22 pm

I imagine soak aways are adding to the concentration problem. I was looking into rainwater harvesting for toilets etc but apparently the water companies own the rain.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Shanghai Hammer on Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:41 am

Burningaham wrote:Lots of different points there. Yes upgrading some pumpstations would help, but the last thIng you’d put in would be larger macerating pumps. Larger solids handling pumps are much more effective. All macerating impellers by their nature are designed to ‘grind’ and cut rather than move larger solids. This has two effects, as well as any sort of rag wrapping around the impellers, grinding the sewage actually starts the sewage breakdown process too earlier (ie before it reaches the treatment plant). This is a problem for the treatment plant, and locally to where the pump station is, lots of smells.

I used the surface water return period as a design comparison, to demonstrate how Difficult it is to design out all risks. What should or shouldn’t happen in design in the uk is a bit of a moot point I agree, as there are thousands of combined surface and waste sewers.

I think climate change will have some hidden effects on our waste infrastructure. For instance as people try to save money, more waterless urinals and low water wc are being installed. So sewage is becoming less diluted, and ‘stronger’ - more difficult to process.

I’m presenting a white paper on this to British Water very soon, as a follow up to my work on FOG a couple of years ago.
And again, you are right; it is all about the money and how they spend it. Only spending money in 18 months of a 5 year AMP period is a ridiculous way to operate, and always has been.

You may also have seen my previous posts in ‘things you always wanted to know’ on the reasons for the lack of white dog poo sightings in recent years.


I suspected you might be in the industry when you commented previously on storm return periods. Valid points about mascerating pumps and I also think it’s better to take out wet wipes via screens at the treatment plant before they get into the treatment process and the plastics end up in the final effluent and sludge. However conversations I have had with operations are that even solids handling pumps are not good at dealing with wet wipes.

For the climate change scenarios I’ve been looking at the conclusions have been a little different, possibly as a result of being in developing countries where per capita consumption increases as people buy washing machines etc. Several scenarios show sewage getting weaker as storms have a greater intensity and result in higher levels of infiltration. For developed countries the opposite could well be true as you describe.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Monkeybubbles on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:43 am

Burningaham and Shanghai Hammer, you're talking crap.




Bet you've heard that one before.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby sendô on Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:47 am

They certainly know their sh*t.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Burningaham on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:19 pm

RichieRiv wrote:I imagine soak aways are adding to the concentration problem. I was looking into rainwater harvesting for toilets etc but apparently the water companies own the rain.


harvesting is only any good on new build. trying to get all the plumbing into an existing system is a real pain.
I once did a site visit at Upton Park bus station ,where they wanted the roof to feed their bus wash.
The bloke from Thames at the same meeting then told the bus company that they'd put up their price for water to make up what Thames would lose in revenue if they did that.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Burningaham on Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:21 pm

sendô wrote:They certainly know their sh*t.


BSTS - British Standard Turd Size. That's all you need to know.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby mushy on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:07 pm

This thread is surprisingly interesting, who would have thought that kumb would have at least two drainage experts on its books?
There is a feature on fatbergs about to come up on the BBC news.
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby sendô on Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:52 am

Sh*t experts mushy, and we've got plenty of those...
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Shanghai Hammer on Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:54 am

sendô wrote:Sh*t experts mushy, and we've got plenty of those...


Might be sh*t to you but its my bread and butter. :)
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby mumbles87 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:01 am

Shanghai Hammer wrote:
Might be sh*t to you but its my bread and butter. :)


lol that reminded me of happy gilmore

Shooter McGavin: You're in big trouble though, pal. I eat pieces of **** like you for breakfast!
Happy Gilmore: You eat pieces of **** for breakfast?
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Greatest Cockney Rip Off on Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:29 pm

Burningaham wrote:The bloke from Thames at the same meeting then told the bus company that they'd put up their price for water to make up what Thames would lose in revenue if they did that.


Are they actually allowed to do that? Surely they couldn't if Thames Water were taken to court?
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Burningaham on Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:44 pm

No idea, I didn’t win the job. I was trying to remember today when it was. I think around 2008
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby Metal Hammer on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:14 pm

The Old Man of Storr wrote:We have an ancient septic tank in our garden


Donald missed the fairway?
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Re: Fatbergs

Postby RichieRiv on Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:32 am

:thup: Bravo sir.
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