What makes someone the nationality that they are?

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What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:19 pm

It's always intrigued me.
Is it where your parents were born or where you were born?
If an couple born in India, have a child born in England, is the child English, British or Indian?
I have an ancestor that was born in Scotland but her parents were born in Ireland so was she Scottish or Irish? I'm guessing Scottish but in terms of my family tree, I don't really see that I can claim to have any Scottish ancestry, from that ancestor.
A couple near me, Spanish & Romanian have a kid born in this country, so he's half Spanish & half Romanian but is probably also classed as English!
It doesn't bother me btw, people can call themselves whatever they want. It just interests me.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby DasNutNock on Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:34 pm

As far as I'm concerned, if you want to represent England, and you make England better, you're English, regardless of where you were born or who your parents are.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby vietnammer on Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:43 pm

In reality we's all human. People make their own choices of identity in various ways. Too much 'nationality' - result, misery imo.

Which politician (jokingly) came out with the 'cricket test' ?
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:49 pm

vietnammer wrote:In reality we's all human. People make their own choices of identity in various ways. Too much 'nationality' - result, misery imo.
Which politician (jokingly) came out with the 'cricket test' ?

Think it was Norman Tebbit. Don't think he was joking..
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby vietnammer on Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:03 pm

Didn't want to nudge this towards a discussion about racism - think I might have - the OP's question is interesting in many ways.

Cockney Rod Stewart strongly identifying with Scotland. What drives that? Not saying he's wrong or anything, but something makes you want to emphasise nationality.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:30 pm

vietnammer wrote:Didn't want to nudge this towards a discussion about racism - think I might have - the OP's question is interesting in many ways.
Cockney Rod Stewart strongly identifying with Scotland. What drives that? Not saying he's wrong or anything, but something makes you want to emphasise nationality.

Thanks viet, I realise how it could go in a certain direction but that wasn't my intention.
As you say, we are all really one race - the human race.
Rod was born & raised in London to a Scottish Dad & an English Mum.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby DasNutNock on Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:54 pm

Samba wrote:Think it was Norman Tebbit. Don't think he was joking..


His point was that it’s common for third generation migrants to support the country of their grandparent’s birth over their home nation.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby vietnammer on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:05 pm

Risk of turning into a PM this! Trying to put it out there that there are many reasons why people identify with a nationality, the principal one being the country their parents and ancestors lived. However, there are other factors that come into play such as wanting to emphasise it as an immigrant or just wanting to be different and individual.

St. Patrick's Day in New York vs St. George's Day in England. You know there's a huge diff. Ireland? It's reportedly become 'trendy' in recent years but not before.

Victoria Day in Victoria, British Colombia (I' ve seen the parade!). Who celebrates Queen Victoria's birthday here?

Was at an Australia Day party on a compound in Saudi, when it came to 'sing along...Advance Australia Fair' hardly any of the Aussies knew the words. Just there for the barbie & beer! ((bet they knew 'Waltzing' though).

There seem to be people who cling on to their nationality, people who reject it, and those who revert to distant ancestry because they don't like their parents and want to be someone else.
Last edited by vietnammer on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Harry Hound on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:08 pm

Samba wrote:"vietnammer"In reality we's all human. People make their own choices of identity in various ways. Too much 'nationality' - result, misery imo.
Which politician (jokingly) came out with the 'cricket test' ?
Think it was Norman Tebbit. Don't think he was joking..


He wasn't joking and IMO was spot on. I have many family members with dual citizenship and the passport to them and many like them is just a convenience. However IMHO the question of nationality is almost redundant nowadays.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Greatest Cockney Rip Off on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:15 pm

My parents were paddies. I was born over here. I always call myself British / English and have done so since I was a kid. Both sisters did a DNA test recently - came back 100% Irish - no other regions, just Irish, which even the people from Ancestry.com said was quite unusual to find people with a single marker in their DNA which ties them to one region. So unless I'm the milkman's, my DNA originates 100% from the island of Ireland. All my tattoos are a lie now (apart from my West Ham ones :shock: ").
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby vietnammer on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:22 pm

Have been at Iranian parties in the UK. The 'exiles from the revolution' - once enough vodka has gone down - will put on the pre-revolutionary Shah's anthem and get all teary (young kids taking the piss too!). Have directly asked them if they'd really want the Shah back in Iran and it's a resounding NO. There's a strongly sentimental side to nationality.

Is the notion of nationality irrational? Does it depend on whether your country is secure or if your country isn't allowed to exist? Or maybe do you just like the colours?
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Harry Hound on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:30 pm

This is an interesting map and study of second languages in London.

http://tubecreature.com/#/tongues/curre ... 3/51.5095/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:17 pm

Greatest Cockney Rip Off wrote:My parents were paddies. I was born over here. I always call myself British / English and have done so since I was a kid. Both sisters did a DNA test recently - came back 100% Irish - no other regions, just Irish, which even the people from Ancestry.com said was quite unusual to find people with a single marker in their DNA which ties them to one region. So unless I'm the milkman's, my DNA originates 100% from the island of Ireland. All my tattoos are a lie now (apart from my West Ham ones :shock: ").

Explains the ginger!
I remember John Hurt on, 'Who Do You Think You Are?'. He had been convinced all of his life that he had some Irish blood in his ancestry. They traced as far back as they could & there was no Irish anywhere in him, at all. He was gutted, absolutely gutted.
I suppose it was what he had been told in earlier life, liked the idea & convinced himself, it was so.
Of course, if they'd gone back far enough, they still may have found some. I don't think it was DNA they were going on, just parish records.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby -DL- on Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:30 pm

Greatest Cockney Rip Off wrote:My parents were paddies. I was born over here. I always call myself British / English and have done so since I was a kid. Both sisters did a DNA test recently - came back 100% Irish - no other regions, just Irish, which even the people from Ancestry.com said was quite unusual to find people with a single marker in their DNA which ties them to one region. So unless I'm the milkman's, my DNA originates 100% from the island of Ireland. All my tattoos are a lie now (apart from my West Ham ones :shock: ").


How does that work though - not doubting your results - but each and every one of us has African DNA in us? That's got to be impossible, or those tests are a load of old cack.

Here's something that will blow your mind too - most of us also have Neanderthal DNA, despite them being a completely different species - because Homa Sapiens and Neanderthals started getting frisky with each other :shock:
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby bubbles1966 on Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:10 am

Their passport.

The rest is a matter of ethnicity and/or spiritual/cultural heritage.

My missus is British. She does not consider herself even vaguely English in spite of being born in London and speaking English (well, cockney) and having lived and worked in London/ Essex all her life. She's 54.

In her words - "I don't 'look' English, so no one thinks I am, so i don't feel it'.

I tell her to 'take ownership' of where she was born and how she talks. she's as east end as me - but the reaction of other people to her 'obviously foreign' look makes her feel 'other'.

She's visibly, culturally and ethnically southern European; getting mistaken for anything between Italian and Pakistani ~ but never English which is what is she is by birth, residence and primary language.

I have Irish heritage on one side going back to the 19th century but I don't feel even vaguely Irish.

One of my (step) dad's sisters used to reckon I was German because of my surname (no, it's not Hitler :D )
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:48 am

-DL- wrote:How does that work though - not doubting your results - but each and every one of us has African DNA in us? That's got to be impossible, or those tests are a load of old cack.
Here's something that will blow your mind too - most of us also have Neanderthal DNA, despite them being a completely different species - because Homosapiens and Neanderthals started getting frisky with each other :shock:

This is supposed to be true. 1-2% in most Europeans today. Much higher in Millwall fans & Martin Keown though, apparently.
Talk about fancying a bit of rough..
Allegedly, many modern ailments & illnesses can be traced back to Neanderthal DNA - skin cancer, mood disorders, smoking, diabetes but no gingers! Thanks a bunch ancestors. Just couldn't keep it in your loin-cloths, could you?
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:50 am

bubbles1966 wrote:One of my (step) dad's sisters used to reckon I was German because of my surname (no, it's not Hitler :D )

It's Schicklgruber, isn't it...
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Mille Miglia 1991 on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:35 am

My Mum was born in Manila, Philippines and my Dad was born in Barking. I was born in the same hospital as my Dad. I consider myself English. Don’t really consider myself Filipino. At school I was called a “Fake” by all these Filipinos who were full on or a mixture with Chinese etc. They would talk about all this food that I didn’t have a clue about and I would talk about Pie and Mash with liquor.

I have no strong connection with the Philippines, I have never been although I would like to at some point in my life, and I don’t speak the lingo either or even have a clue what my mum is saying when she speaks to her mum and sister.

My mum, looks Filipino but she’s got a very normal English accent so some people even mistake her for a “fake”. She’ll consider herself more British anyway nowadays.

I think it’s just about what you connect with.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Tenbury on Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:15 pm

I was born BFPO (in Germany) my sister likewise (in Singapore) my kids have dual UK/Italian nationality.

Ironically, I hate globalisation.!
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby djbubbles on Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:43 pm

I was born in Plaistow to a cockney mam and an irish dad. We moved to Ireland when i was 2. I consider myself Irish
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