What makes someone the nationality that they are?

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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Moxy on Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:30 pm

Born in Leytonstone to Irish parents and consider myself Irish, I love this country but just feel Irish because of family and my surname. I feel people get offended as a slight to England but it’s not that at all it’s just that’s how I feel and identify with Ireland through family members. I think it’s just people’s personal feeling.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby prophet:marginal on Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:25 pm

The clue, in reality, is in the word: nationality, like nativity, natural etc all relate to the event of one's birth.

One's nationality is effectively from where one is born.

One's genetic formulation is effectively from one's parentage.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Tenbury on Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:32 pm

So I'm German, my sister's Singaporean, and we both share the same parents, who were English ??
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby prophet:marginal on Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:42 pm

Tenbury wrote:So I'm German, my sister's Singaporean, and we both share the same parents, who were English ??


Well, yes, if we are looking at it from an English perspective.

Anyone born in England has English nationality, if we are simply going by the correct meaning of that word.

Obviously, each country has developed its own rules about rights and entitlements, to matters such as citizenship and residence, though, so, if a person is born in a country, but never really lived there, the entitlements may not apply.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sat Feb 02, 2019 4:59 pm

Tenbury wrote:So I'm German, my sister's Singaporean, and we both share the same parents, who were English ??

Du bist einen grosse kartoffel, Tenners...
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Bend it like Repka on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:19 pm

I think the biggest bearing is parental influence. If I emigrated to Australia when my kids were 5 and 1, I'd probably expect them to view themselves as Australian by the time they were teenagers. Maybe if you emigrate when they are 10 or older they may well hang onto being a Pom, as they will have memories or where they grew up. However if as a parent you choose to influence them and bang on about being English I can imagine that will play a part.

DasNutNock wrote:His point was that it’s common for third generation migrants to support the country of their grandparent’s birth over their home nation.


Which leads to this. Watching England v India this summer it did piss me off seeing the number of very young children cheering on India wearing their kit. I can understand 1st generation immigrants still supporting their homeland, or maybe as mentioned people who came here as a child and still have some memory of the past. But these are at least 3rd generation Indians, born in this country, and parents still are pushing them not to support them homeland team. It's not like there are no Asian players in the England side to provide role models.

At the end of the day it's not a lot to do with dna or race, it's down to what is put into their brain behind closed doors.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:26 pm

Really interesting posts, guys.
It seems to me that it can be different things & not one definitive thing.
It can be more the nationality of your parents than where you were born.
Conversely, it can be where you were born & brought up. Both are clearly, equally valid.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Harry Hound on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:29 pm

Bend it like Repka wrote:At the end of the day it's not a lot to do with dna or race, it's down to what is put into their brain behind closed doors.


Good summary BILR, it's also down to society. Americans come from many different ethnic backgrounds and whilst still holding on to their ancestral roots they are all Americans.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby -DL- on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:35 pm

My maternal granddad was Scottish - and I remember once we were watching football on the telly around his and my nan's, a Scotland international. I was only about 7 or 8, and I cheered when they scored.

In his broad Glasgow accent he said 'Why you cheering them for wee laddie, your an Englishman, an Englishman never cheers on the Scots. Hell noooo.'

'But you're Scottish Grandad'

'Aye, I am, but you're English, and soos ya mother and ya cannae have two'
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Harry Hound on Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:53 pm

-DL- wrote:My maternal granddad was Scottish - and I remember once we were watching football on the telly around his and my nan's, a Scotland international. I was only about 7 or 8, and I cheered when they scored.

In his broad Glasgow accent he said 'Why you cheering them for wee laddie, your an Englishman, an Englishman never cheers on the Scots. Hell noooo.'

'But you're Scottish Grandad'

'Aye, I am, but you're English, and soos ya mother and ya cannae have two'


Sounds like he was a wise man your grandad. :thup:
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Tenbury on Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:38 pm

Samba wrote:Du bist einen grosse kartoffel, Tenners...


Just don't mention the f**king war.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Mega Ron on Sat Feb 02, 2019 8:47 pm

It's a difficult one. I am English but I can see where some would find it impossible to determine.

When I first went to an Uber posh party I was met with a guy (and they were all like this) who said he was 'International'. He lived in half dozen countries and went to school in so many places his accent was weird as hell.

My gut instinct was to think he was a prat but he really wasn't.

I'm living in Essex again after a dozen years away and when I get asked where I'm from I feel that's too complicated to answer in a straightforward way.

I would say it's what you feel you are.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby FreeWheeling on Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:44 pm

-DL- wrote:My maternal granddad was Scottish - and I remember once we were watching football on the telly around his and my nan's, a Scotland international. I was only about 7 or 8, and I cheered when they scored.

In his broad Glasgow accent he said 'Why you cheering them for wee laddie, your an Englishman, an Englishman never cheers on the Scots. Hell noooo.'

'But you're Scottish Grandad'

'Aye, I am, but you're English, and soos ya mother and ya cannae have two'


Exact same as me , He was Jockanese I was English and he let me know that , taught me to drink like a Scot though :D
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby DasNutNock on Sat Feb 02, 2019 10:00 pm

Manu Tuilagi is as English. As is Billy Vunipola.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:07 pm

DasNutNock wrote:Manu Tuilagi is as English. As is Billy Vunipola.

Andy Murray's always British when he's doing well..
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby New Jersey on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:23 pm

Born in London to English parents. Moved to US when I was 27, now lived here almost 34 years and have dual citizenship. I'll probably spend the rest of my life here, but I consider myself English, always have, always will. I cheer for the Europeans in the Ryder Cup, always want the Brits to win The Masters and other major tournaments. If the US were playing England in any sport, I would want England to win. I'm English because of where I was born, who my parents are, and as much as I enjoy my life here in New Jersey, I will always identify myself as English.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Greatest Cockney Rip Off on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:23 pm

Samba wrote:Explains the ginger!


I spent my life slagging them off until I grew a beard and realised I was one of them. I'm still having counselling for it now :shock:

-DL- wrote:How does that work though - not doubting your results - but each and every one of us has African DNA in us? That's got to be impossible, or those tests are a load of old cack.


Honestly, nobody was more surprised than me. Apparently the technology involved in DNA research in regard to ethnicity is in it's infancy and originally there was Irish (81%), British, Greco-Roman, Scandinavian, Caucasian and even 1% Jewish in our family. Now that they've had more people doing the tests, they can identify the markers in people's DNA from certain regions. Ours change recently and to my shock, I'm 100% Mick. At first I was skeptical but they even narrowed it down to regions in Ireland where I originate from, all ties in with the family tree and even the surname which is even more worrying.

The theme tune to deliverance has always been in the back of mind which I could never explain until now! :shock:
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:33 pm

When they tell you he's related, that's when you can worry..
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:45 pm

I'm Welsh , both my parents were Welsh , all of my Grandparents were Welsh and we all spoke Welsh as our first language .

I married an English girl , our Daughter was born in Barnet then we moved to Skye when she was 2 - our Son was born in Inverness and has lived in Scotland thus far .

My Daughter considers herself English [ she calls herself Half Welsh in front of me :) ] , my Son prefers to be called Welsh even though he was born in Scotland and loves going back to Anglesey more so than I do .

We're a strange lot my family .
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Greatest Cockney Rip Off on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:46 pm

Samba wrote:When they tell you he's related, that's when you can worry..
Image


He actually looks like a younger version of my brother in law ... :lol:

In the words of Private Fraser "we doooomed!!"
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