What makes someone the nationality that they are?

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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Ralph Mellish on Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:54 pm

It can mean anything that anyone wants it to mean.

If, for example, you have northern european skin and appearance but were born and bred (ha, I said bread pre edit) in China, could you call yourself Chinese ?

It's about race really (not racism).

and it's about time dual, triple etc nationality was knocked on the head.
Last edited by Ralph Mellish on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:05 am

I knew a Nigerian girl who was born in London but brought up in Nigeria so she had both a British & a Nigerian passport. Someone asked her what nationality did she consider herself. She replied, 'I'm British when I want something'.
This is the same girl that when she was pregnant & shouldn't have been flying, hid the noticeable fact & went on a plane to give birth in America so that, that child would have a US passport so that she, the Mum, would be able to live in America (with that child) one day, if she wanted to.
Are we the mugs, NOT doing things like that?
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Clucking Bell on Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:08 am

I was born in Romford to a Scots mother and a Welsh father and I've been a naturalized American for over a decade.

I tend to think of myself as primarily English, followed by Welsh, Scots and American in that order. However, what with the current levels of buffoonery over Brexit and having Terry Fuckwitt as president, I'm waiting for Wales and/or Scotland to declare themselves independent before claiming citizenship.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Monkeybubbles on Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:57 am

I wonder how far back any of us need to go to find non-English ancestors? And what does non-English mean?
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Tenbury on Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:02 am

Round here it means Welsh.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:30 am

Monkeybubbles wrote:I wonder how far back any of us need to go to find non-English ancestors? And what does non-English mean?


I know that part of my grandfather's (mum's side) family traces back to arriving here in the mid 19th century from Ireland. On my maternal grandmother's side it was east end way back in the 17th century.

My grandfather's parents didn't want him to marry my grandmother because she was a protestant and he was catholic. This was around 1920.

On my dad's side, I know it was east end back in the 19th century at least and I've seen something with my surname recorded in an east london church going back to around Elizabethan days.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Slacking student on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:06 pm

I've a question, are people British first or English, Welsh or Scottish.

I've noticed it changed in the past few years. I personally, having lived in Wales would class myself as English not British but I've always been questioned by a friend who questions what do I do at the Olympics (complete indifference).

I personally bring it back to sport. When it comes to football cricket and rugby, I support England and love watching the Welsh lose.

I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this from the various nations that make up the United Kingdom.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby -DL- on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:38 pm

Slacking student wrote:
I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this from the various nations that make up the United Kingdom.


Start a new thread then :thup:
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby vietnammer on Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:55 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:I've seen something with my surname recorded in an east london church going back to around Elizabethan days.


BUBBLES WAS ERE 1578 carved on the back of a pew?

I don't know where people find the patience to go through parish records etc, fascinating though the idea is. Half of mine seem to have emerged from the pungent London fogs. It is known though that the other side comes from down Cork way and the story is they arrived so poor that the men had to live in the railway tunnels theye were digging.

I'm definitely London English cos anything else would be pretending.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby westham,eggyandchips on Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:15 pm

Where you are born is your nationality.

None of this 'half this quarter that' bow-locks. Too many people trying to attach themselves to another nationality is sad. Be proud to be English.....its nothing to be ashamed of, despite what some say.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Tenbury on Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:39 pm

So the thousands born post war abroad to servicemen who had just fought for their country and were subsequently stationed overseas , aren't British, whereas those born,at the same time, to those that managed to avoid the conflict are.As ,incidently, is the charming 5 year old Polish kid who lives up the road.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby prophet:marginal on Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:54 pm

Tenbury uber alles!

Seriously, though, this is an issue that means a hell of a lot more to some than others.

I'm British, or English, I am never totally sure. I think British makes a bit more sense, given that I am quite clearly made up in part by Irish ancestry, on my old man's side. So far as I know, they disgraced us all, for all future generations, by economically migrating to London in some part of the last 150 years. Forest Gate looked charming in the brochure, for sure.

On the maternal side, there is a fair amount of (midlands) Englishness, going back, so far as I am aware.

On the wife's side, she is the daughter of a father who had two Italian parents (who settled here between the wars) and of a mother whose family (again) settled in the North, from Leeds, at broadly the same as my old man's family arrived in E7.

We have two kids. In reality they have a mixture of Irish, English and Italian heritage.

They were both born in London.

They are British, but 3 of their 4 grandparents definitely have ancestors who came here to work and have a better life.

I would guess that this is fairly common, in reality, especially in London and the other major cities.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby sendô on Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:23 pm

Bloke I used to work with had Irish parents, but was born in Hammersmith, raised in London and spoke with a thick London accent but insisted that he was Irish and not English.

That always struck me as odd.

westham,eggyandchips wrote:Where you are born is your nationality.

None of this 'half this quarter that' bow-locks. Too many people trying to attach themselves to another nationality is sad. Be proud to be English.....its nothing to be ashamed of, despite what some say.


My family on my dad's side are Italian. I consider myself part Italian, the fractions of which are debatable, but the point is it's nothing to do with being ashamed of being English.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Junco Partner on Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:12 pm

Slacking student wrote:I'd be interested to hear peoples thoughts on this from the various nations that make up the United Kingdom.

It's very easy...with the football NI is my team, I don't 'support' the other UK teams but almost always find myself tuning in to watch their important games and don't begrudge them success, although media treatment of Englands team gets quite nauseating and makes it hard to wish them well. The only team I want to lose every single game heavily is the RofI...due to unpleasantness experienced directly from their 'fans'.

I support Ireland at the rugby, although Ulster slightly more and The Lions too when they tour. I cheer on GB at the Olympics, unless some Belfast lad/lass is competing for Ireland, but I'm cheering the individual more. I support Europe at the Ryder Cup, England in test cricket, unless playing Ireland of course, which was simpler when Ireland hadn't test status and I sort of make my mind up about the more individual sports based on the individual involved.

So, whats complicated about that?
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Hindley Hammer on Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:53 pm

Slacking student wrote:I've a question, are people British first or English, Welsh or Scottish.


The trouble is that you are allowed to be Scottish, Irish or Welsh but under no circumstances can you be English.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:04 pm

vietnammer wrote:... carved on the back of a pew?

I don't know where people find the patience to go through parish records etc, fascinating though the idea is.


At the start of the 20th century there were only two families with my surname on the census from where my family are from and one was definitely my great-grandparents, so it sorta stands out like a sore thumb. :)

As for record-digging, I can think of three examples I know of where I strongly suspect the people who've done it wish they hadn't.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:12 pm

Monkeybubbles wrote:I wonder how far back any of us need to go to find non-English ancestors? And what does non-English mean?

That's interesting.
It seems not far back at all, in terms of other British Isles.
Having parents, grandparents & g grandparents, from NI, ROI, Wales or Scotland or IOM, seems very, very common to have, if one is 'English' today.
Further back, for an 'Englishman' especially, it's highly likely that there's French, Danish & Norwegian, involved.
Before that, Germanic tribes such as, Goths, Vandals, Angles, Saxons, Lombards, Suebi, Frisii, Franks & the more Eastern, Huns and Rugini.
And of course, in early AD, many Italians from Rome.
Talk about Heinz 57, if you're English today!
In truth, the more true Britons today are the Scots, the Welsh & the Irish. They all managed to more resist, all of the above, 'invasions'.
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby prophet:marginal on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:20 pm

From an outsider's point of view, I've always wondered about truly religious people's views on nationality.

If we're all God's children, what difference does our precise birthplace make?
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:22 pm

westham,eggyandchips wrote:Where you are born is your nationality.

For some circumstances, this is true.
For other circumstances, this is clearly not true.
Tenbury is clearly not German despite his funny walk & penchant for women, with hairy armpits..
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Re: What makes someone the nationality that they are?

Postby Samba on Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:29 pm

prophet:marginal wrote:From an outsider's point of view, I've always wondered about truly religious people's views on nationality.
If we're all God's children, what difference does our precise birthplace make?

:lol:
Way to open a can of worms, proph!
For some, their religion is more important than their nationality.
For others, they see religion AS their nationality.
I wonder if either of those views might cause problems one day...
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