Brexit referendum result aftermath

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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Economists at the BOE said mass immigration had reduced wages offered to native workers.

Any evidence to back up that migration pushed up wages? all the numbers I can find show wages have slowed remarkably since the mass immigration of the mid 90's
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:May has started speaking in Florence...
John Holmes on Talk Radio reckons it sounds like she's dumping them, "it's not you, it's me, can we still be friends" etc......... :lol:
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

Some points:- May proposed a two year transitional period, that we would honour our commitments for the duration of the current EU budget, no Norway, EEA or Canada model, UK courts will be sovereign on all matters but will take into account ECJ rulings on EU citizens settled here, separate new body to rule on EU/UK disagreements, EU citizens settled here to retain rights.

She also made a veiled appeal to major country leaders to prod the EU negotiators into some sort of meaningful action.

Boris Johnson‏Verified account @BorisJohnson 11m11 minutes ago

PM speech was positive, optimistic & dynamic - and rightly disposes of the Norway option! Forwards!
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by RichieRiv »

The one economic theory that even economists won't argue with is the market will always prevail.

That's exactly what happened when the UK withdrew from EMU - the experts predicted disaster and apocalyptic consequences. But the market prevailed.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by sendô »

Leave voters apparently shocked at the realisation that it might take so long and cost so much to leave the EU.
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Collison Theory
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Collison Theory »

The Boleyn Hound wrote:^^ Yes - a small effect on wages at the lower end. But otherwise, immigration is not an important factor.
Even if it was, why have we had to leave the EU? Why didn't we just halt the 50% of immigration that came from outside of the EU? Nobody seems to be able to answer that one.
Come on, you just aren't listening, I've heard that answered many times. What we want is a fair immigration process, where someone is judged either on their ability to contribute, or by their need. Not a system where every single Italian, Latvian and Bulgarian has the right to live here, but the most dynamic and deserving Americans, Indians and Africans are denied entry. Immigration is about a lot more than simply quantity.

I'm definitely not anti-immigrant, and that isn't why I voted Brexit. But I'm definitely sympathetic to those on the lower end who have suffered this "small effect", because if you're on the breadline, a small effect is a big effect.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by RichieRiv »

sendô wrote:Leave voters apparently shocked at the realisation that it might take so long and cost so much to leave the EU.
The media? Or your Facebook feed?

The one thing you can guarantee with the EU is that change is neither quick nor straightforward - unless of course you want in, in which case Goldman Sachs are on hand to smooth things along.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

The Boleyn Hound wrote:^^ Yes - a small effect on wages at the lower end. But otherwise, immigration is not an important factor.

Your cabby and your cleaner mates might well believe that immigration has kept their wages low. But they're wrong, says the evidence in report after report. Therefore, what are they basing their opinion on? How do you know they're not pushing an agenda?

Show me the evidence that says immigration does greatly push down wages. True evidence, not just a taxi driver moaning abut immigration.

I wonder if you WANT to believe that immigration is a problem, and so you've chosen to ignore the evidence that says it's not, that says it's needed and actually pushes UP wages, and you've decided to believe above everyone else a man who drives cars around London for a living and someone who cleans the bog at work over facts and figures.
Nothing as intangible as a report I suspect, more likely to be something of more substance, like their pay statements. The ones that have lost out the most are those in the building trade, although to be fair they have seen a recent increase in pay rates.
As I have said, I prefer to believe people I have known for a long time, people who have actual experience. How do these reports come about? Is there an agenda behind them? If the CBI drafted one of these reports would it be as accurate and trustworthy as one created by the SWP?
A lot of people at the lower end of the pay spectrum (including skilled labour in the building trade) have been affected by large scale immigration suppressing their wages, you dismiss their concerns and would rather believe reports that at best generalise the issue.
This is the attitude that lead to large numbers of these people voting Brexit and is probably why May didn't want the reports published, because she knew they'd be a backlash.
Amongst the low skilled and low paid, large scale immigration has been a massive factor, as RR has said, market forces prevail, that includes the labour market as well. Why pay someone a decent wage when there's thousands out there that will do it for less?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by bubbles1966 »

It's interesting that Brexit speech day and Uber day have overlapped.

Since the eurozone crisis London has accumulated an extra 60,000 minicab drivers - a doubling of the pre-euro f*** up amount.Image

All highly skilled and enriching the country no doubt and in no way driving down the incomes of the working class souls who were cabbing beforehand.

More bad news for rich Londoners and their servant class..
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Junco Partner »

So, everyone who's here already can stay, anyone who wants to come can still come until 2021, every single EU law and regulation will be copy & pasted in entirety onto our statute books, we'll still pay billions into the EU budget for years and we'll still be paying for EU pensions for as long as most of us live....

...but we're out of the customs union and the single market....

...and for this we've to cough up £20bn immediately

TAKING BACK CONTROL :thup:
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by bubbles1966 »

Junco Partner wrote:So, everyone who's here already can stay, anyone who wants to come can still come until 2021, every single EU law and regulation will be copy & pasted in entirety onto our statute books, we'll still pay billions into the EU budget for years and we'll still be paying for EU pensions for as long as most of us live....

...but we're out of the customs union and the single market....

...and for this we've to cough up £20bn immediately
Hello, Nigel.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Junco Partner »

Is it worth it?

Honestly.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by bubbles1966 »

Junco Partner wrote:Is it worth it?

Honestly.
Yes.

60,000 extra minicab drivers in London this decade.....where have they all come from? What impact has it had on working class wages? What's it doing to housing costs in London? How about pollution?

Then read it across to couriers and the wages and living standards of posties.

Then tradespeople.

Etc etc.

Brexit isn't the creation of people like Farage - it's the obsessive europhiliacs who refused to apply a bit of common sense on freedom of movement, accession etc.
Last edited by bubbles1966 on Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Junco Partner »

bubbles1966 wrote:60,000 extra minicab drivers in London this decade.....where have they all come from
I'd guess less than a third come from the EU.

All our major problems - chronic inequality, massive economic & geographic imbalance, poverty pay, runaway debt and productivity collapse - are self created over the last 40 years.

The EU had next to nothing to do with them.

But lets see how it plays out, carry on....
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by bubbles1966 »

Junco Partner wrote:The EU had next to nothing to do with them.
The EU has vast amounts to do with what has happened in the last 15 years.

Tens and tens of thousands of Spaniards, Italians and Greeks haven't decamped here because they like the weather - the EU has savaged their economies.

Countries like Bulgaria and Lithuania are being hollowed out like old pit towns, again as a result of the Wild West planning regime that the EU operates.

Chuck in Merkel's murderers.

It's a f*** up of gigantic proportions. Poorly led, chaotic, shambolic, bureaucratic, sclerotic.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Junco Partner »

bubbles1966 wrote:It's a **** up of gigantic proportions. Poorly led, chaotic, shambolic, bureaucratic, sclerotic.
That describes the UK since roughly 1977.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by bubbles1966 »

Junco Partner wrote:That describes the UK since roughly 1977.
Maybe....but we do get a real chance to change clowns every five years.

With the EU, we don't.

I don't know anybody who voted for Van Rompuy, Juncker, Barnier, Verhofstadt.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Junco Partner »

It sounded like a can being kicked a long way down the road today....

May knows who's paying the bills around Conservative Central Office, and knows they don't like Brexit.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Bend it like Repka »

bubbles1966 wrote: The EU has vast amounts to do with what has happened in the last 15 years.
Absolutely. How anyone can deny that free movement of labour has led to overpopulation and a decrease in work and wages for some UK tradespeople I don't know.

The Euro has been a disaster.

The Greeks have been crushed economically.

Italy has seen zero growth for a decade.

The desire and unwavering march for a federal superstate has led to a rise in the right across Europe.

All directly caused by the EU.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Etonhammer »

Don't worry.

There is no willingness from our leaders, civil service or media to push for Brexit.

TM has offered a pointless deal as the EU will not grant any concessions, they cant because they know other countries will start to think.

They will play hard ball all the way down the line. We have to get a bit Zammo and just say no.

We wont though, the fix is in and all you little Englander, thick waycists will have to think again.

As for immigration, I think Coudenhove-Kalerghi (sic) summed up the plan years ago
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