Brexit referendum result aftermath

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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by the pink palermo »

My business has been going for 50 years , we've recently started exporting to France for the first tie in our history , and today we received our first orders ever from Italy .Meanwhile our Irish customers simply can't get enough of our wonderful stuff .
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Bend it like Repka »

The Boleyn Hound wrote: But Boris Johnson is the story. He's another Brexiteer that is slowly distancing himself from the reality of Brexit. Who will be next? My guess would be Michael Gove.
I doubt that. As odious as Gove is, I think he believes in Brexit. Boris is a chancer who will definately backtrack if he feels it would suit his career.
The Boleyn Hound wrote:If you want the purest of Brexits, that would be Leaving the EU and leaving the EU only. That by definition means staying in the Customs Union and Single Market, because we never had a vote on those did we?
As Remain gleefully point out, Brexit was mainly down to immigration. Everyone who wanted to curb immigration knew that to take control of immigration you needed to be outside EU free movement. To be outside you needed to be outside the Customs Union. We didn't need to vote on any sub part of the EU, because even though you continue to roll out the line that Brexiteers were too dumb to realise the big picture, people knew that to achieve what they wanted, leave had to me leave.


The Boleyn Hound wrote:This is why the referendum was a bad idea - the decision should have been done through the party system, with a manifesto put to the public to vote on at a General Election, and enough seats won to push that manifesto through to law. This is what UKIP tried at GE after GE - and were rejected, winning zero seats.
Again, you are choosing to ignore public feeling in an attempt to come up with proof that a referendum was wrong. UKIP grew steadily for a number of years until they posed such a threat that the Tories were forced to offer a referendum in order to prevent UKIP winning a large number of seats, which they would have done were it not a manifesto commitment.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

I doubt that. As odious as Gove is, I think he believes in Brexit. Boris is a chancer who will definately backtrack if he feels it would suit his career
So you think Boris Johnson believes his backtracking on Brexit will suit his career... me too. Nobody will want to be associated with it in a year's time. The two biggest cheerleaders have already stepped back. Gove will distance himself in some way.
because even though you continue to roll out the line that Brexiteers were too dumb to realise the big picture, people knew that to achieve what they wanted, leave had to me leave
When have I ever said that Brexiteers were too dumb to realise what they were voting for or what the big picture is? I have said that the uneducated in our country voted Brexit, as did the racists, but I have not said that Brexiteers are dumb and racist.
As Remain gleefully point out, Brexit was mainly down to immigration. Everyone who wanted to curb immigration knew that to take control of immigration you needed to be outside EU free movement.
Some Brexiteers no doubt did want to leave the SM and/or the CU. However the Leave campaign didn't:
Image
Image
If you want some more, here's a whole video full of the Brexiteers saying that we would stay in the SM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY

I don't care if people felt they were voting to end immigration. Others thought they were voting to give a cash boost for the NHS, or to stop Muslims coming to Britain. Others voted Leave for economic reasons, or to reclaim "sovereignty". None of these are coming true and none of them are covered by the question "Should the UK Remain or Leave the EU?". If a campaign makes multiple claims and won't allow itself to be pinned down during the referendum, it faces the consequences of an ambiguous mandate, which is what we have now and which is what has led to the phrases Soft Brexit and Hard Brexit. Ho hum.
And if that campaign actually states that we would not be leaving the SM or CU? Well.... excuse me for not feeling bad when I distinguish between Hard and Soft Brexit.

I know why Cameron put a referendum in his manifesto, because of politics. What I am saying is that a contentious result from a referendum is not the way to enact a huge policy like Brexit, which as anyone with a bit of sense knew would take years, and be subject to a million and one questions. When Brexit turns out not to be the panacea it was sold to be, don't go blaming the parliament some people voted to give control back to (or the British judges ruling on British law).

If a second referendum comes about, as some Brexiteers now want, it will be, again, because of politics.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by billybondsballbag »

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Last edited by billybondsballbag on Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by bubbles1966 »

Oh, so "unlimited free access" cheap could in some ways be bad for bits of Britain?

So, cheap labour arriving at 300,000 a year might be bad for UK workers wages?

And cheap outsourced production to other EU countries might be bad for UK communities and businesses?

Quite a lot of people had this worked out 18 months ago.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

A bit like the situation in Africa?

http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not sure how accurate the article is. It's not a source I'd usually reference, but this is Brexit after all, the old rules no longer apply. :lol:

When it come to agriculture no amount of politics can change things like climate, soil types, seasons and other mother naturally things.........
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by billybondsballbag »

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Last edited by billybondsballbag on Tue Feb 14, 2023 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

The Boleyn Hound wrote:However the Leave campaign didn't:
Image
Image
If you want some more, here's a whole video full of the Brexiteers saying that we would stay in the SM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY
Are you accepting the 350m on the bus claim as well then now? Because as i assume you well know that video is the same sort of level of bollox. Even that great brain Andrew Neill saw through it and called them out on it live on tv. Of course its only one side doing the fabricating and misleading in all this.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

Of course I am not accepting the 350 million on the bus claim. Nor am I accepting Boris Johnson today continuing the claim:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42698981

The point is that the terms Hard Brexit and Soft Brexit were not invented by Remainers to somehow dilute Brexit. On the contrary, Hard Brexit as a concept only really became a thing in the days and weeks after the referendum result when suddenly Brexiteers began claiming we must leave. There is no mandate for leaving the SM and CU, unless you also accept that there is a mandate for providing the NHS with an extra 350 million a week.

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

Norway are not in the European Union. They are not members. They are not listed as members, they do not claim to be, and they are not one of the 27 in the EU27. They are 100% not members of the EU. It would be impossible for Norway to be asked the same question as were asked.

Yet they are in the European Single Market. These are undeniable facts.

The only argument for there being a mandate to leave the CU and SM is that it is somehow in the "spirit" of Brexit. Well that doesn't wash I'm afraid.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

No the point is you have banged on and on about misinformation, how we should vote again because of false claims. Yet seemingly accept the falsehoods in the video as another reason to vote again. All those poor thick remainers that fell for the lies peddled by the remain campaign eh.

There is a mandate for leaving the EU. The extent of that departure is what the politicians are supposed to be doing instead of acting like kids. If we stay in the SM and customs union and therefore maintain the 4 freedoms, if we accept the jurisdiction of the ECJ and continue to pay a membership fee will we have left the EU?

So I guess the question is what is the EU. When they ticked their box what did people think they were giving up. I would guess most people voting leave wanted to end at least one of the 4 freedoms.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

We should vote again because we know a lot more now about what leaving the EU entails than we did in June 2016. This is because the campaign was poor (on both sides), not informing us of the benefits of EU membership and containing lies about what post-Brexit would look like. The lies on the winning side are rightly being torn apart because the winning side... er... won.

The false claims in the video are exactly what I'm talking about. You cannot run a campaign stating we will stay both in and out of the SM and CU if Brexit wins, and then cry when people talk about Soft and Hard Brexit.

This is just setting us up for "Brexit was a fantastic idea, if it wasn't for those pesky Remainers" bull. :asleep:

Today the EU have made it clear it is not too late for us to remain members of the EU. Once we see what the final deal will be, why do you deny the right for the people to decide if they want it or if they want what we have now? That's undemocratic.

Brexiteer (and Iron ;-) ) Iain Dale has just said: "In October the EU are going to offer us a deal so terrible that Parliament are likely to reject it. That's when there'll be calls for a second referendum - I can just see it".
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 1011Iron »

Just for comedy's sake...

The 'great brain' Andrew Neill and the director of Open Britain dissecting the video together...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

The Boleyn Hound wrote:We should vote again because we know a lot more now about what leaving the EU entails than we did in June 2016. This is because the campaign was poor (on both sides), not informing us of the benefits of EU membership and containing lies about what post-Brexit would look like. The lies on the winning side are rightly being torn apart because the winning side... er... won.
How do you know what people now know and knew then? I knew it meant leaving the single market because of the free movement of people conundrum, I knew it also probably meant leaving the CU, having a hard border imposed at the EU border and that the deal we left with would be one worse than we had as members. The consequences were made pretty clear by the EU and remain during the campaign.

As I said I would guess most people voting leave wanted one or another of the 4 freedoms curtailed. It is fairly safe to assume they knew that would mean leaving the single market as they are the cornerstone of membership.
The Boleyn Hound wrote: The false claims in the video are exactly what I'm talking about. You cannot run a campaign stating we will stay both in and out of the SM and CU if Brexit wins, and then cry when people talk about Soft and Hard Brexit.

This is just setting us up for "Brexit was a fantastic idea, if it wasn't for those pesky Remainers" bull. :asleep:
Of course whats happening now is all about each side setting the other side up in case they don't get their way. Its politics, its a group of people acting like kids.
The Boleyn Hound wrote: Today the EU have made it clear it is not too late for us to remain members of the EU. Once we see what the final deal will be, why do you deny the right for the people to decide if they want it or if they want what we have now? That's undemocratic.

Brexiteer (and Iron ;-) ) Iain Dale has just said: "In October the EU are going to offer us a deal so terrible that Parliament are likely to reject it. That's when there'll be calls for a second referendum - I can just see it".
I am all for people voting on the deal if thats what they want. Whats happening now though is people are trying to use democracy to forget about the vote we already had. A vote (or a series of votes) on the deal on offer is perfectly democratic assuming of course the default is the result of the first vote.

Doesn't happen often but Dale has a point. If we are edging towards having a vote on the deal or staying as we are then there is no point negotiating. Tbh if we are voting again the deal is meaningless, the vote would be one of 2 options. Deal or as we are or deal or wto. In both circumstances there is no incentive for the EU to offer any sort of a deal. Their position is that 2 years isn't close to enough time (especially cut down to 18 months) so we will blink and call it off. I said from the off that negotiating our way out was never going to work, we will have to leave and negotiate back in to get anywhere imo.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by bubbles1966 »

billybondsballbag wrote:Bubbs, only the most ardent leaveophile could find my comment an argument for Brexit.
Cheaper food is a fairly good argument for Brexit, a bit like more money to spend on the NHS rather than giving away £400m a week to the EU

The Remain position presented on here in the last 24 hours appears to have mutated into vote for dearer food and continued subsidies for French farmers and landowners like Prince Charles at the expense of the dear old NHS. :)
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Bend it like Repka »

Many pages back I suggested that Remainers were hoping to cause enough fuss so that in the end the deal would be so bad, staying would be the better option.

Not possible many said, conspiracy theorist others said. Can't happen as article 50 is triggered, no turning back.

Well the door has just been opened officially.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42702065" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I've always said I won't believe it until it is done and dusted. The long game is being played, respect the vote my arse.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Greatest Cockney Rip Off »

Interesting poll on Scottish independance:

In the next five years:
Yes: 36%
No: 54%

After the negotiations:
Yes: 35%
No: 51%

After Brexit:
Yes: 36%
No: 47%

Source YouGov.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/07/30/br ... ependence/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Johnny Byrne's Boots »

The Brexit bill has cleared the Commons and goes off to Jurassic Park.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Bend it like Repka »

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:The Brexit bill has cleared the Commons and goes off to Jurassic Park.
Where 100 Liberal peers will doubtless do everything they can to respect the vote....
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by sendô »

They're not there to "respect the vote".
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Greatest Cockney Rip Off »

The truth is that if the Lords reject the final agreement with the EU then we’re heading for a hard-Brexit which I’m sure nobody in the Remain camp wants.
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