Brexit referendum result aftermath

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Etonhammer
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Etonhammer »

The point being that it could be done as a soft border if they wanted to and some agreement could be reached but they have no intention of being that agreeable or practical.

Its just another 'Ginarism' used to muddy the waters around Brexit in the hope that the UK will end up with such a rubbish position the second vote will be a win for the enlightened and it will be business as usual.

Just as a thought. When there is a 2nd vote and the result still goes against those who wish to remain, what reasons will they give that time and will we see another assault on democracy by Gina and her Spanish hairdressing friend?
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The Boleyn Hound
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

Etonhammer wrote:The point being that it could be done as a soft border if they wanted to and some agreement could be reached but they have no intention of being that agreeable or practical.
Where is the precedent to say that it's possible? I've shown that in the examples you alluded to, there are good reasons (that we don't want to sign up to) why there is no border. In what legal framework would a soft border be possible?
Etonhammer wrote:Just as a thought. When there is a 2nd vote and the result still goes against those who wish to remain, what reasons will they give that time and will we see another assault on democracy by Gina and her Spanish hairdressing friend?
I think if the UK votes to leave the EU when the known options on the table are No Deal (WTO) or losing Northern Ireland and possibly Scotland, we'll go through with it, and we'll deserve all that happens afterwards.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

Prosperity and freedom? I'll have some of that......
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Monkeybubbles »

I'm beginning to feel that this Brexit thing hasn't been properly thought through.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Etonhammer »

Interesting to see that only 44% of the members of the unelected house voted against the Government regarding the CU.

By recent (new) definitions does this now mean that 56% of them were in favour of leaving the CU?
By definition wasn't the vote just advisory as our elected representatives can over rule it?
Were those old people just doing it to spite the young?

:wink:
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The Boleyn Hound
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

44% of Lords (348) voted in favour of customs union.
28% of Lords (225) voted to not pursue customs union.
28% of Lords (227) didn't vote.

The vote was not legally binding, correct.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

Monkeybubbles wrote:I'm beginning to feel that this Brexit thing hasn't been properly thought through.
That's how we roll, we just muddle through and things turn out OK. That's the flexibility not having a written constitution gives you....... :wink:
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The Boleyn Hound
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

An unwritten constitution does bring flexibility.

It also brings uncertainty e.g. not knowing if Parliament gets to have a say on the Brexit bill or not.

Turns out Parliament does, but for a while, not everyone was sure..

Our constitution mandates both no hard border between NI and Republic, and the existence of NI as a normal regulatory-aligned member of the UK. The Government's current path makes these two requirements mutually incompatible, but although our unwritten constitution is indeed flexible, only one of those features involves a bilateral peace deal with a third party state (who also happens to be a member state of a union we are negotiating to leave) and as such only one of those features of our constitutional is likely to be changed/removed.

So we muddle through because the UK is not going to just shut up shop, but only within the confines of our own constitution, plus the legal arrangements we have with soon-to-be third parties. This brings a Brexit nobody really wants, even the Brexiteers.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Rocketron »

Etonhammer wrote:but has been made possible for parts of other European countries that lay outside their 'natural' borders.

When it suits them, of course
Spain is part of the EU, but the Canary islands aren't at least as far as bringing tobacco back to England is concerned.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 666 hammer »

So we can't sign a free trade with EU as a independent nation like every country does outside the EU.
Of course we won't be able to decide on what regulations they require but that would work both ways as it does with all trade deals.
Like Switzerland has freedom of movement we could do this on NI. Passport checks at ports.
Goods passing through will need customs to check. But this depends on how free a trade deal the EU want.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by EvilC »

666 hammer wrote:So we can't sign a free trade with EU as a independent nation like every country does outside the EU.
We can sign one, it'll just be a lot less comprehensive than the current one.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 666 hammer »

So there can be freedom of movement of people between NI and the Republic like Switzerland and the EU. And we can set up a similar customs deal.
If they want to trade, a deal will be made. If not we can trade else where.
Who is the EU looking to protect? It's workers, business? Or it's control?
The EU seems unable to accept that it has helped cause this situation and wishes to seek for further integration despite what the European people want. Us included as people of Europe.
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666 hammer
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 666 hammer »

An example of current free trade within the EU
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thes ... ports.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why is France allowed to break the rules?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Hummer_I_mean_Hammer »

666 hammer wrote: Why is France allowed to break the rules?

Because they're not muggy like us (who seem to be the only ones who stick to EU rulings). :fsake:
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by EvilC »

666 hammer wrote:So there can be freedom of movement of people between NI and the Republic like Switzerland and the EU.
Is NI signing up to Schengen?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 666 hammer »

I don't think so. But is a similar deal impossible? Currently can a Indian national (for example) walk freely across the border without passport checks?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

666 hammer wrote:So there can be freedom of movement of people between NI and the Republic like Switzerland and the EU. And we can set up a similar customs deal. .
FoM between NI/Republic based on Schengen is one possibility, but Switzerland is also a member of EFTA, and as such has a coordinated trade policy and participates in the Single Market. It also pays for certain EU projects.

If this is the arrangement we want for NI, we have to accept it also for the rest of the UK, as the DUP regularly (inc yesterday) remind us.

FoM based on Schengen between EU and NI means anyone from EU can travel to the UK with no passport needing to be shown, which is less border control than we have now.

And even with this arrangement, there is huge border infrastructure between Switzerland and the EU because Switzerland is not in the CU/full SM:

Image

Image

666 hammer wrote:If they want to trade, a deal will be made. If not we can trade else where.
We can trade with the EU with or without a FTA or SM access, same as we can any other country in the world now.

It really is not a choice between trading with the EU or RoW. Inside the EU we do both already. The difference will be increased barriers to EU and all those countries EU has FTA with until we can sign new FTAs ourselves. Countries are starting to tell us they won't sign FTAs unless we sign a deal with the EU.

What rules has France broken in that link? That wine thing is a protest.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Looks little bit like this
Image
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The Boleyn Hound
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Boleyn Hound »

That's a toll booth! Boris Johnson was roundly ridiculed when he compared the Irish border to the C Charge...
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by EvilC »

666 hammer wrote:I don't think so. But is a similar deal impossible? Currently can a Indian national (for example) walk freely across the border without passport checks?
Yes, it would appear impossible without the UK signing up to Schengen.
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