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Re: Trump

Post by the pink palermo »

Morocco Mole wrote:Sarah Huckabee Sanders.... :fsake:
You really would need the money to do her job
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Re: Trump

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

So let me get this straight.....

A person (any person) who commits a crime (illegal immigration is still a crime) can't go to jail and be separated from their kids ?

My guess is that there are loads of prisons in the states where one or both of the parents are "separated" from their kids after being put in jail either on remand or being granted no bail. Then sentenced.

Besides, when you apply for "asylum" or that, isn't the first country of entry the place where you apply ? Or doesn't that qualify for Mexico.

I would guess that if I were to enter mexico illegally and get caught I would go to jail, directly to jail and not pass go.


‐ If outsiders do not enhance the country’s “economic or national interests” or are “not found to be physically or mentally healthy,” they are not welcome. Neither are those who show “contempt against national sovereignty or security.” They must not be economic burdens on society and must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam, and prove they can provide their own health care.

‐ Illegal entry into the country is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years’ imprisonment. Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment; so is alien marriage fraud. Evading deportation is a serious crime; illegal re-entry after deportation is punishable by ten years’ imprisonment. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process and the endless bites at the litigation apple that illegal aliens are afforded in our country (see, for example, President Obama’s illegal-alien aunt — a fugitive from deportation for eight years who is awaiting a second decision on her previously rejected asylum claim).

‐ Law-enforcement officials at all levels — by national mandate — must cooperate to enforce immigration laws, including illegal-alien arrests and deportations. The Mexican military is also required to assist in immigration-enforcement operations. Native-born Mexicans are empowered to make citizens’ arrests of illegal aliens and turn them in to authorities.
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Turns to Stone
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Re: Trump

Post by Turns to Stone »

That's the problem with 'Making America great again'. It involves ****ing everyone else over.
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Re: Trump

Post by Cuenca 'ammer »

Naff all to do with that TTS...

I had to apply legally to come to the States, pay an immigration lawyer and prove that I wasn't taking a job away from an American. Plus have chest x rays and prove that I didn't have TB.

I and many many others. Why do people who break the law (illegal immigration is..well illegal) get to jump queues and then complain when they are taken into custody ? As I stated earlier, if an American (or legal immigrant) commits a crime and is incarcerated, they get separated from their families. Why is there no outcry from elected officials about the "unfair" practice of separating families guilty of these crimes ?

It also seems that Mexico has ignored it's own immigration policies and not stopped these immigrants earlier.

How closely must they police their own southern borders to allow thousands upon thousands of immigrants to traverse Mexico and arrive at the U.S. border ?

I have published to requirements of immigrants to Mexico above. Not dissimilar I would imagine to those of the U.K. when coming into the country...

I found this:

What you need to check for
You must check for evidence of:
• adverse behaviour (using deception, false representation, fraud, forgery, nondisclosure
of material facts or failure to cooperate)
• non conduciveness, adverse character, conduct or associations (criminal history,
deportation order, travel ban, exclusion, non-conducive to public good, a threat to
national security)
adverse immigration history (overstaying, breaching conditions, illegal entrant,
using deception in an application)

• adverse health (medical reasons)
• NHS or litigation debt


So it would seem that it is also illegal to enter the country "illegally" in the U.K. and is grounds for refusal to stay.

How is that any different from what is happening here ????

I am at a total loss on the double standards applied...
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Re: Trump

Post by IronworksDave »

The problem is the 'blame Trump' media ....

The immigration department is just following the law, as indeed they have done since the Chinese Act of 1882 and the Alien Contract of 1885 the Immigration Act of 1990 and the post 9/11 Homeland Security Act of 2002 are the current legislative documents ... just a bit before Trump then ...

The law is very clear, anybody attempting to enter the US illegally will be arrested, detained, and if found guilty returned to their starting country ... all of course subject to ambulance chasing appeals, human rights, hand-ringing lefties, etc. etc ...

However under the law LIKE ANY OTHER DETAINED SUSPECT

adults will be detained in correctional facilities, accompanying minors will be held independently under government supervision until a decision is made on the adults case .... that's the feckin' law .....

Now Trump may be a tool, but beating him up for following the law? ... that's about as smart as a stump ... pretty typical media bias ...

If you don't like it change the law, vote for a President who didn't stand on an anti-immigration platform.

You voted for him, surprising for a politician, but he's now doing exactly what he said he would do, and anyway it's not him separating families it's what the law requires ...

Why not give them all hotel accommodation, a council house, free cash ... oh wait a minute that's the UK system ....
Last edited by IronworksDave on Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Trump

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

Youngest migrants held in ‘tender age’ shelters
https://apnews.com/dc0c9a5134d14862ba7c7ad9a811160e

Internment camps for toddlers. That's what this country is all about.
:thdn:
Last edited by bitter-iron-ny on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trump

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

IronworksDave wrote: However under the law LIKE ANY OTHER FELON
I believe the crime they're committing is a misdemeanor

There is also the matter of due process. You know, innocent until proven guilty.
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Re: Trump

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

Turns to Stone wrote:That's the problem with 'Making America great again'. It involves ****ing everyone else over.
MAGA is a slogan, not a policy.

This Administration is populated with people who don't have a clue as to what they're doing. They're angry, underinformed and amoral. And the conservatives who know better but still give these clowns countenance are just as bad.
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Re: Trump

Post by IronworksDave »

bitter-iron-ny wrote:I believe the crime they're committing is a misdemeanor

There is also the matter of due process. You know, innocent until proven guilty.
Nope ... if you are detained under US law (for whatever reason) then any accompanying children are either released to family members, or held as wards of the state ... that forms part of due process ...

I admit 'felon' is the wrong term 'suspect' would be more accurate ...

Immigration is tricky, if you don't detain suspects they disappear, some 6m have done just that in the last decade .... but if you do detain them you end up splitting families ....

Creating 'camps' as horrible as that sounds, may well be the best solution, at least it will keep families together ... or maybe building a feckin' great wall as a certain nut-job wants to do ....

Difficult problem requires creative solutions not just blaming the elected leadership .... makes for great click-bait headlines but in the end solves nothing ....
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Re: Trump

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

IronworksDave wrote:
Nope ... if you are detained under US law (for whatever reason) then any accompanying children are either released to family members, or held as wards of the state ... that forms part of due process ...

I admit 'felon' is the wrong term 'suspect' would be more accurate ...
It is a change in enforcement policy, not a law.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/was-l ... ssed-1997/

And it didn't belong to Barry

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... ilies-was/

This is a poorly conceived attempt by Team Trump to do politics. To force funding for the border wall (the one Mexico was going to pay for) to be included in this year's spending bills. To achieve this we are going to out-terrorize the Central American cartels these people are fleeing from. It's an amateurish and stupid strategy that is failing miserably.
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Re: Trump

Post by IronworksDave »

bitter-iron-ny wrote:This is a poorly conceived attempt by Team Trump to do politics. To force funding for the border wall (the one Mexico was going to pay for) to be included in this year's spending bills. To achieve this we are going to out-terrorize the Central American cartels these people are fleeing from. It's an amateurish and stupid strategy that is failing miserably.
You think this is all new? ..... was it team Trump in 2013 / 2014 / 2015 / 2016? ... or perhaps you are ill-informed or a bit of a sucker for media spin?

Image

I'm not advocating for Trump, just pointing out the facts .... Trump campaigned on tightening up border security, no surprise then that he is ... but it's not new it's been the law for years ...

FYI the numbers in 2010 were over 800,000 .... don't remember the 'Team Obama' outrage then .....
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Re: Trump

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

The difference is what happens after apprehension.

Is there some other nonsense you want to blame on the media bogeyman? More than a little ironic that you rely on a manufactured spin from a particular echo chamber rather than acknowledging facts. Maybe take a few minutes to go back and read what was linked in my prior post.
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Re: Trump

Post by IronworksDave »

bitter-iron-ny wrote:The difference is what happens after apprehension.

Is there some other nonsense you want to blame on the media bogeyman? More than a little ironic that you rely on a manufactured spin from a particular echo chamber rather than acknowledging facts. Maybe take a few minutes to go back and read what was linked in my prior post.
What facts? ... nobody is denying that Obama failed to uphold the law (fact accepted in your own referenced articles) this led to a large increase in children arriving at the border ... call me a cynic but when you know that if you turn up with children at the US border then you will get a free pass "Obama's administration generally refrained from prosecution in cases involving adults who crossed the border with their kids" then as an illegal immigrant that's exactly what you will do .... look up 'border crossing kids for hire' to see how that works ...

Trump campaigned on enforcing THE EXISTING law and not ignoring it ...

The government in 2014, amid an influx of asylum seekers from Central America, established large family detention centers to hold parents and children — potentially indefinitely ... this policy was deemed illegal in 2016 so family separation returned .... again these are facts from your own referenced articles ... once the camp policy failed Obama basically gave up and left it for the incoming president ...

This is not a law of Trump's making it's just the law ... if you are arrested and detained for any crime then 99% of the time you are separated from your children ... crossing the border illegally is an arrestable offence ... the law isn't aimed only at immigrants it's just the law ... Obama first enforced it, then lost in court, then just ignored it ... Trump campaigned on enforcing it and now he is ... those are the facts not some faux outrage about 'ripping kids from mothers' it's just following the law ...

Change the law don't blame the people enforcing it .... it's obviously not right to break up families, so don't bring your kids to the border ... that's the message being sent it's not that hard to grasp ...

I would bring back the Obama camps and keep families together, but that requires congress approval so it won't happen any time soon ...

While you're at it are there any other laws you think should be ignored? or is it only the ones that make crazy politicians (and Trump is barkin') look bad?
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Re: Trump

Post by 666 hammer »

The USA has left the UN human rights declaration. This will be made a lot out of it, but is it worth anything as ow many of the following countries that are signed up follow it.
Chile, Afghanistan, Brazil, Bolivia, Burma, Belgium, Australia, Argentina, Egypt, Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Denmark, Cuba, Costa Rica, Colombia, China, Iraq, India, Iceland, Haiti, Guatemala, Greece, France, Ethiopia, El Salvador, New Zealand, The Netherlands, Mexico, Luxembourg, Liberia, Lebanon, Iran, Sweden, Siam, Philippines, Peru, Paraguay, Panama, Pakistan,
Nicaragua, Norway, Uruguay, United States Of America, United Kingdom, Turkey, Syria, and Venezuela.

Canada has not signed and they are not considered inhumane.
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Re: Trump

Post by sendô »

You've got to worry about a country that thinks it's perfectly okay to take small children away from their parents and keep them locked in cages, regardless of the crimes of their parents.
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Re: Trump

Post by fmgod »

Surely Trump is just doing what he was elected for, tightening rules, regulation and security up, it's what the people voted for and what he is doing, surely it's refreshing to a see a politician actually do what their election campaign promised. The main people bleating to me are the left wing and Clinton supporters who still can't believe they lost and that Trump won and is still 18 months later still president. The liberals had their way of doing it the last 18 out of 27 years and people obviously want something different.
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Re: Trump

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

sendô wrote:You've got to worry about a country that thinks it's perfectly okay to take small children away from their parents and keep them locked in cages, regardless of the crimes of their parents.
Nah, just spout a bunch of paranoid piffle from your mental bunker and rationalize it all away...seems to work for some.
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Re: Trump

Post by Turns to Stone »

fmgod wrote:Surely Trump is just doing what he was elected for, tightening rules, regulation and security up, it's what the people voted for and what he is doing, surely it's refreshing to a see a politician actually do what their election campaign promised. The main people bleating to me are the left wing and Clinton supporters who still can't believe they lost and that Trump won and is still 18 months later still president. The liberals had their way of doing it the last 18 out of 27 years and people obviously want something different.
I don't think it's just the left-wing and Clinton supporters who are bleating about pre-school children being forcibly removed from their parents and taken to 'centres' where they are being held away from their parents.

Enforce the law, fine. But surely there are better ways of doing it than this aren't there?

Jesus, I just think of my 9 month old-son looking around a room full of screaming kids desperately trying to pick out his Mum and Dad. If that's the only way to 'tighten rules and regulations' then I'm disappointed.
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Re: Trump

Post by szola »

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:So let me get this straight.....

A person (any person) who commits a crime (illegal immigration is still a crime) can't go to jail and be separated from their kids ?
Let me set you straight.

Seeking protection, from another state than the one you are citizen of, is not a crime.

It is possible to detain a family. Chosing not to keep a family united is a pure political choice. A choice that can cause a lifelong trauma.

It isn't rocket science.
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Re: Trump

Post by bitter-iron-ny »

Turns to Stone wrote: I don't think it's just the left-wing and Clinton supporters who are bleating about pre-school children being forcibly removed from their parents and taken to 'centres' where they are being held away from their parents.
Among others:
http://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/39 ... der-crisis
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