Brexit referendum result aftermath

[EvilC]

It was the hypocritically implied racism more than just the tone. But if we want to keep it at Love Island levels of shallowness, then yes, it was just the tone......

Well you either are or aren't happy with it. But Sendo's point remains, they're not putting the gates back on after this referendum.

[Tenbury]

Just wonderin'

What are people's concerns about a Federal Europe anyway? On a day-to-day personal level, how do you feel it would affect you and your kids and their kids?

When you take housing costs into account, about a fifth of the UK population are classed ( govt. figures ) as living in poverty, this has barely changed in decades, so I would think there's a fair few that couldn't give a s**t.

[Junco Partner]

Just wonderin'

What are people's concerns about a Federal Europe anyway? On a day-to-day personal level, how do you feel it would affect you and your kids and their kids?

Farage was so concerned for his kids under a Federal Euro Super State he got them German passports...

Lawson got his French one...

Paul Dacre will have to look into how to maintain his estates EU agriculture subsidies...

Visa queues for the masses, free movement for the gilded...it's the Brexiteer way.

In the words of Johnny Rotten..."Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

[Bend it like Repka]

What are people's concerns about a Federal Europe anyway? On a day-to-day personal level, how do you feel it would affect you and your kids and their kids?

My opposition to a Federal superstate was my main reason for voting Brexit for the main reasons

1) History shows that pretty much any large controlling body will only strive for more powers and say in everyone's lives. As new leaders take over they will only seek to put their own mark on the rulebook.

2) The more powerful and centralised the EU becomes, the less say we will have in our daily lives. You only have to look at the change from the EEC to the EU to see the evolution.

3) The very nature of Europe, the difference between southern Europeans and Scandinavians, between Bulgarians and Irish means that in my mind the idea of harmonisation and alignment is highly unlikely.

4) A Federal superstate that basically exists based on an agreed ideal cannot be democratic or truly accountable. When all the main officials (Junker, Barnier, Tusk etc) hold the same views who is there opposition within the body?

5) History has already shown that the EU has made blunders, most notably Greek entry into the Euro. I have seen no evidence that anyone was held accountable for a political decision that has literally cost billions and subjected millions to misery. No inquest, no sackings, no changes.

6)If we don't get out now, my grandkids will look at me in 30 years time and ask me what the point of UK elections are, as we have handed most power to one unchanging body in Brussels that can't be removed.

[carnage]

It’s still not going to happen.

[the pink palermo]

BILR excellent post.

[Monkeybubbles]

My opposition to a Federal superstate was my main reason for voting Brexit for the main reasons

Good stuff Bendy, all quite valid points.

On a day-to-day basis, I'd suggest that not much would change. Get up, go to work, eat some food, watch the football, get paid, have little say in the fate of the proletariat. The country is currently run by power-hungry fools, and would be run by power-hungry fools in the event of complete unification.

Should we really care THAT MUCH about being in or out of Europe?

[The Old Man of Storr]

Then allow me explain the premise further and in a hopefully clearer fashion:

In an attempt to ridicule leave voters over potential immigration issues related to Brexit some remainers pointed out that this would lead to an increase in non EU immigration, so far no issues, actually it's pretty much an accurate prediction.
The gleeful insinuation coming from some remainers being that immigration from outside the EU (brown people) would be worse than immigration from inside the EU..........

Edited to add - Reading that back it still isn't as clear as I'd like it to be, but I know what I'm on about.

Everyone had their own reasons for voting Remain or Leave [ I personally voted Remain ] - however it was reported in the media [ BBC Radio 4 ] that British people of Indian and Pakistani origin had by their own admission voted Leave in the hope of replacing Polish Immigrants with Indian and Pakistani Immigrants . I then reported that story on here but at no time did I belittle Leavers or call them racists . If it is indeed me you're referring to .

[The Old Man of Storr]

Good stuff Bendy, all quite valid points.

On a day-to-day basis, I'd suggest that not much would change. Get up, go to work, eat some food, watch the football, get paid, have little say in the fate of the proletariat. The country is currently run by power-hungry fools, and would be run by power-hungry fools in the event of complete unification.

Should we really care THAT MUCH about being in or out of Europe?

That's about the size of things , MB - I'm willing to bet that many British people would rather be ruled by Europe than our very own Tory Party .

[delbert]

Except that voting to leave and voting in a Tory government would suggest otherwise.

As for the EU super state thing? It would have to be all or nothing IMO.

All = No separate states and no national governments meaning no national self interest.
Nothing = Simply trade only.

Europe isn't ready for "All".......

[York Ham(mer)]

Marr: The whole country wants to know, what was President's advice to you on Brexit?

May: He told me to sue the EU.

:lol:

[Tenbury]

On a day-to-day basis, I'd suggest that not much would change. Get up, go to work, eat some food, watch the football, get paid, have little say in the fate of the proletariat. The country is currently run by power-hungry fools, and would be run by power-hungry fools in the event of complete unification.

Should we really care THAT MUCH about being in or out of Europe?

A much better way of expressing what I was trying to say.

For a lot of people governance is just always there, the wrapping may change,but as far as their day-to-day existence pans out.....etc.etc.

[sendô]

sneering remainiacs

Is that the new term for people inconveniently pointing out the facts?

The numbers are easy to find for non-EU immigration. Leaving the EU won't stop that at all.

Oh and I never implied that EU immigration would be replaced with "brown" immigration, just that I didn't expect the immigration numbers to reduce by a lot, for economic reasons.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

2) The more powerful and centralised the EU becomes, the less say we will have in our daily lives. You only have to look at the change from the EEC to the EU to see the evolution.

As I said in my previous post, the EU's never-ceasing quest for power is subtle and ceaseless. The lines that are drawn between national governance and EU governance has become so blurred that nobody really knows who does what. I keep getting told that the EU has very little impact on the governance of this country which, if true would mean leaving the EU would be easy, which it obviously isn't.

Oh and I never implied that EU immigration would be replaced with "brown" immigration, just that I didn't expect the immigration numbers to reduce by a lot, for economic reasons.

It was actually Evil C who implied that.

[sendô]

The issue with the EU is less it's "power", and more it's accountability.

It's an issue for us Britons as we're used to holding our government to account. The beauty of the cabinet system is that a minister has to stand in the Commons and explain to the other half of the house when they f*** up, and have the press digging over everything in the background. The EU does not have that.

Most other countries don't have that anyone. Look at the caging immigrant children thing in the US - if that was over here they'd have been a resigning Home Secretary within a week.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

The issue with the EU is less it's "power", and more it's accountability.

It's an issue for us Britons as we're used to holding our government to account. The beauty of the cabinet system is that a minister has to stand in the Commons and explain to the other half of the house when they **** up, and have the press digging over everything in the background. The EU does not have that.

Most other countries don't have that anyone. Look at the caging immigrant children thing in the US - if that was over here they'd have been a resigning Home Secretary within a week.

And can you ever see the EU reforming or changing that accountability? Nope, neither can I. The EU can't reform unless it's wants too and any reformation would see it lose it's wrest on power (and let's not kid ourselves that that's what it wants).

[York Ham(mer)]

We are leaving the EU on the 29 March 2019 by the simple operation of the law following the submission of Article 50. Any s**t that happens afterwards is entirely the fault of Brexiteers.

[Samba]

We are leaving the EU on the 29 March 2019 by the simple operation of the law following the submission of Article 50. Any s**t that happens afterwards is entirely the fault of Brexiteers.

Or Theresa May,
or David Cameron,
or Nigel Farage,
or Boris Johnson,
or Michael Gove,
or Tony Blair..

Of course, it could be argued that voting Leave & the s**t that happens afterwards, are two different things.
Yes, Vote Leave triggered whatever s**t that is going to happen afterwards but the particulars of that s**t are still being decided upon. Excruciatingly so.
In theory, it's possible that 100% of the 51.9% leave voters are not going to be happy with the s**t that happens afterwards.
After all, they only voted to leave the EU. They didn't vote for any of the details of it.

[delbert]

Is that the new term for people inconveniently pointing out the facts?

The numbers are easy to find for non-EU immigration. Leaving the EU won't stop that at all.

Oh and I never implied that EU immigration would be replaced with "brown" immigration, just that I didn't expect the immigration numbers to reduce by a lot, for economic reasons.

Facts on things that haven't happened yet? Only Dr Who and Marty McFly are qualified in the area.

Of course it won't, no one here is suggesting that.

I know you didn't.

[the pink palermo]

Any s**t that happens afterwards is entirely the fault of Brexiteers.

I can live with it.