I long ago gave up the notion that there might be any interesting and illuminating exchanges of views on this thread. Now I just come here to laugh at the monkeys as they wave their little dicks around.monkeyhanger wrote:
I agree with all of this. A recent example for me was when Bubbs claimed 1 in 3 French people voted for Marine Le Pen last year and when I pointed out it was only 15% of the overall French electorate that voted for her (a fact) Bubbs just said “well that means 80% didn’t try to stop her” to try and justify his initial falsehood. At which point I just thought what’s the point in trying to debate someone who won’t admit when they are factually wrong and are basically trying to mislead people and I gave up.
Brexit referendum result aftermath
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- Monkeybubbles
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
- Rays Rock
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
A bold claim from someone who has this thread as their most active topic.Monkeybubbles wrote:]
I long ago gave up the notion that there might be any interesting and illuminating exchanges of views on this thread. Now I just come here to laugh at the monkeys as they wave their little dicks around.
- Monkeybubbles
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
I'm not sure that you read what I wrote. And please stop waving that thing around.Rays Rock wrote:
A bold claim from someone who has this thread as their most active topic.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
Yes it does mean only 34.7% voted remain and no the French Presidential election is not a referendum on a single issue but a range of policies each candidate is presenting. Are you saying referenda are the same as general elections ? You are doing it again. Boring.bubbles1966 wrote:Does it follow that only 34.7% voted to Remain in that case? (I'm just applying your logic).
If people choose not to vote, especially in a referendum which the French presidential run off largely is.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
I am not trying to de-legitimise anything. What I am saying is if voters are not energised to vote in referenda (like the AV vote at around 40% turnout), MEP votes (also at around 40% turnout) and mayoral and police comissioner votes at around 15% turnouts can you legitimately inflate these turnouts and say they are truly representative of public opinion and the “will of the people” (37% of the electorate vote leave or 15% of French people vote Le Pen).bubbles1966 wrote:Some posters on here have constantly tried to use non-voters as an attempt to delegitimise electoral results for years, by effectively trying to apportion non-voters to their side with no justification.
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- Junco Partner
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
So the only options on the table are a major hit to living standards on one hand, and a vassal state situation on the other?
Don't remember seeing that on the side of any bus in 2016
Don't remember seeing that on the side of any bus in 2016
- westham,eggyandchips
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
What does that actually mean, and what evidence do you have to back it up?Junco Partner wrote:So the only options on the table are a major hit to living standards on one hand
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
Me personally? none.
I just take what the Bank of England, the Treasury, the IMF, the CBI, the TUC, the FT, the WTO and every reputable economic correspondent has said at face value....they can't all be wrong.
Still, Farage and Mogg say we'll all be rolling about in dosh any day soon...
History will be their judge.
I just take what the Bank of England, the Treasury, the IMF, the CBI, the TUC, the FT, the WTO and every reputable economic correspondent has said at face value....they can't all be wrong.
Still, Farage and Mogg say we'll all be rolling about in dosh any day soon...
History will be their judge.
- bubbles1966
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
Yes.monkeyhanger wrote: Are you saying referenda are the same as general elections ? .
You pick a choice. You take the good and the bad with it. If you don't choose, you signal that the options have the same level of merit and you have no preference.
- bubbles1966
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
So you are just objecting to the terminology, not the outcome?monkeyhanger wrote:I am not trying to de-legitimise anything. What I am saying is if voters are not energised to vote in referenda (like the AV vote at around 40% turnout), MEP votes (also at around 40% turnout) and mayoral and police comissioner votes at around 15% turnouts can you legitimately inflate these turnouts and say they are truly representative of public opinion and the “will of the people” (37% of the electorate vote leave or 15% of French people vote Le Pen).
Or are you suggesting that there should be a minimum participation level to enact an outcome or a different minimum 'win' level to 50%+1 in a referendum, or whatever in an election?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
Yes you can. As I have always been told, if you don't vote then don't complain about what you get.monkeyhanger wrote:can you legitimately inflate these turnouts and say they are truly representative of public opinion and the “will of the people”
What you are doing is splitting hairs nonsense. In your electoral world ever single government we have had must have been elected by a minority of eligible votes. None have been enacting the will of the people, just the will of those who turned out.
Brexit is the will of the voting public. The rest, they chose not to turn up, therefore they chose not to be counted in any form. Their "will" therefore doesn't count and shouldn't be included in conversation.
As Bubbles has rightly said, one constant I have heard from Remain is the attempt to reduce the overall percentage of those who voted leave into the formula of overall UK voters, and say we can leave the EU on the basis of it being a minority decision. Trawl back over enough pages in the thread and you will find people say we can't leave because only 37% of people voted for it.
Last edited by Bend it like Repka on Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
People have been complaining that living standards have been a problem for over a decade so being in the EU isn't a panacea either.Junco Partner wrote:Me personally? none.
I just take what the Bank of England, the Treasury, the IMF, the CBI, the TUC, the FT, the WTO and every reputable economic correspondent has said at face value....they can't all be wrong.
Still, Farage and Mogg say we'll all be rolling about in dosh any day soon...
History will be their judge.
- Monkeybubbles
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftetermath
Yes, absolutely. There's a lot of immature taunting around here, and I'm more guilty than anyone. I don't always try to pass it off as reasoned debate though.Rays Rock wrote:
That comes across as a quite an immature taunt Monkeybubbles.
Just for the record: I'm not hugely pro or anti Brexit. Very much on the fence from day one, trying to form an opinion based on fact. In the early days of this thread there was a decent exchage of views which I found helpful and illuminating. Now, though, it's mostly the same few posters trotting out half-facts, distorted stats, conflated scenarios, and unsupported testimony in ever more desperate attempts to validate their stance. Its just noise.
Everyone is entitled to opinions, of course, and that's largely what we're hear for. But passing your opinion off as fact, and calling someone else a simpleton or whatever because their opinion differs to yours, does nothing to inform or persuade. Its just dick waving.
- the pink palermo
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
Bottle of lager here in spain is 1.50 euros. The exact same lager in my high st is £4.50.
Common market ?
Common market ?
- York Ham(mer)
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
In today’s news: Dominic Raab says Canada-style trade deal is 'off the table' and says the Government will continue to negotiate on the basis of Chequers (which they can’t get past the EU or a substantial number of Tory MPs). He also says “No-deal won’t be the end of the world.”
Last edited by York Ham(mer) on Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Longneck'd Iron
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
Some never voted for benefits, more to get away from EU membership.jastons wrote:How long before we can start to enjoy the benefits of Brexit?
- westham,eggyandchips
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
Can't they?Junco Partner wrote:
I just take what the Bank of England, the Treasury, the IMF, the CBI, the TUC, the FT, the WTO and every reputable economic correspondent has said at face value....they can't all be wrong.
Did any of they above see the financial crisis coming in 2008??
You'll excuse me if I don't take their word for ANYTHING.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath
You know as well as I do, British taxes cause the difference.the pink palermo wrote:Bottle of lager here in spain is 1.50 euros. The exact same lager in my high st is £4.50.
Common market ?