Brexit referendum result aftermath

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IronworksDave
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by IronworksDave »

Rays Rock wrote: The people at the march will expect it to achieve the ability to remain in the EU. That is their goal, enf of.
It will be taken seriously by the government as they have the same leanings.
That's what I thought ... has any march ever overturned an election result in the UK? ... I guess there's a first time for everything but for sure this won't be it .... far to much at stake ...

600k sounds a lot, but more people went to football matches yesterday, and even more people will go fishing this month ... so if all the fisher-folk got together and called for the overturning of a democratic decision should we listen?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 666 hammer »

It's also not the difference in the referendum.
It must be terrible for middle class London. Where are they going to get au pairs from. Cheap cleaners and barristas. Not to mention trade workers. They claim to be looking out for the little people but It is their wallet that is of concern.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by jastons »

I wonder what the appetite for, and subsequent media coverage of, a people's vote would have been if the referendum result was 'remain'.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by brownout »

IronworksDave wrote:Anyone go on the march today? big respect to anyone who made the effort to put their views out there, agree or disagree ... just interested to hear what people expect it to achieve ...
Yes I went - although left in time to get to West Ham.

I was marching because I believe the government isn't able to deliver the Brexit that many people voted for. We have far more information now and should hold another vote to decide whether the 'will of the people' is to leave with whatever deal or no deal the government wants / can achieve (more than two years on the Tories haven't decided what sort of Brexit they want) or to remain.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by IronworksDave »

brownout wrote:Yes I went - although left in time to get to West Ham.

I was marching because I believe the government isn't able to deliver the Brexit that many people voted for. We have far more information now and should hold another vote to decide whether the 'will of the people' is to leave with whatever deal or no deal the government wants / can achieve (more than two years on the Tories haven't decided what sort of Brexit they want) or to remain.
Thanks for your response it's pretty much in line with everyone I've talked to, out of interest were you a Leave at the referendum but have now switched to a Remain? So far just about everyone interviewed, quoted, or posting comments was a Remain before ... did anyone who voted Leave actually change their vote?

Out of interest if we have a second vote, and assuming Remain win, obviously in another twelve months time we will again have far more information, when then do we get a third, or fourth, or fifth vote? is it every couple of years? or every time 0.6% of the population turn up for a rally?

What are the exact new referendum criteria you are proposing?
Last edited by IronworksDave on Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

brownout wrote: I was marching because I believe the government isn't able to deliver the Brexit that many people voted for. We have far more information now and should hold another vote to decide whether the 'will of the people' is to leave with whatever deal or no deal the government wants / can achieve (more than two years on the Tories haven't decided what sort of Brexit they want) or to remain.
So this march was all about leave voters not getting what they voted for?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

Was that march yesterday about having a vote on what sort of deal we should get or having another vote on a referendum ?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by westham,eggyandchips »

The Old Man of Storr wrote:Was that march yesterday about having a vote on what sort of deal we should get or having another vote on a referendum ?
I'm not sure that the 600k that took part are a 100% sure.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 666 hammer »

What is to say if ' the people vote' to remain the EU will offer the exact terms we left.
We will probably have to give more away. Including the £.
So would we get a vote to decide on the terms to remain? After all this varies amongst remainers.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

westham,eggyandchips wrote: I'm not sure that the 600k that took part are a 100% sure.
700k according to Andrew Marr .

If they manage to secure a 2nd Referendum I would vote Leave despite being a Remainer just to help uphold the original vote - Democracy and all that .
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by jastons »

An obvious reason for not holding a second referendum is what happens if the next result is remain, does it then become a best of three situation?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

I wonder how many on the march were EU (non UK) citizens working and living over here?

If we must have another referendum then Soros's People's Vote should be another simple binary one:

1; Leave with the deal negotiated and agreed by the government and the EU.
2; Leave without accepting the deal negotiated by the government and the EU.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Harry Hound »

delbert wrote:I wonder how many on the march were EU (non UK) citizens working and living over here?

If we must have another referendum then Soros's People's Vote should be another simple binary one:

1; Leave with the deal negotiated and agreed by the government and the EU.
2; Leave without accepting the deal negotiated by the government and the EU.
Very pertinent point Delbert, it would also be interesting to know how many of the remain voters are newly naturalised citizens (naturalised post Tony Blair election victory) and how many have dual citizenship. From my research most who voted leave are British born, identify as British and their primary issue was sovereignty. Of the remainers that I know personally, the majority are not British born or hold dual nationality and their concern was access to larger labour markets, free movement etc.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by EvilC »

delbert wrote:I wonder how many on the march were EU (non UK) citizens working and living over here?

If we must have another referendum then Soros's People's Vote should be another simple binary one:

1; Leave with the deal negotiated and agreed by the government and the EU.
2; Leave without accepting the deal negotiated by the government and the EU.
Why?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Rays Rock »

delbert wrote: If we must have another referendum then Soros's People's Vote should be another simple binary one:

1; Leave with the deal negotiated and agreed by the government and the EU.
2; Leave without accepting the deal negotiated by the government and the EU.
No, no more public votes.

However, if the choices are the 2 you have stated, it would serve the negotiation process much more in our favour. Otherwise if the EU knows a second referendum is being offered with a Remain option on it, they will pull right back and offer us sweet f a, wait for us to surrender ourselves to them and they will treat us like absolute ***** for ever onward. Wave bye bye to the £ and our rebated contribution will be increased.

That’s exactly what i would do if i were the EU !
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Harry Hound »

delbert wrote:I wonder how many on the march were EU (non UK) citizens working and living over here?
Some very interesting coverage of yesterdays march
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by richneal »

Thank you for letting me barge in and join the conversation with my ten cents worth.

From my perspective it's really sad to see - internationally the British government is a laughing stock over Brexit. It's painful to watch. I really don't enjoy writing this.

Kindest thing I can say is that those that led the campaign to leave the EU appear to have over-promised.

As the economic arguments in favour of leaving the EU get dismantled, political leaders who campaigned for a Brexit vote have stepped back from leadership or resigned their posts. Up to you to decide why.

My gut feeling - far from reliable - is that the economic arguments for leaving the EU are instead making the type of rhetorical claims that appeal to 19th century colonialism - they don't bear scrutiny. And again - gut feeling - from my perspective most of challenges facing working families in Britain have far more to do with Westminster than Brussels: the EU is an easy scapegoat for the leaders you elect.

Hopefully I'm wrong and the next few years brings a sense of economic security and tangible economic benefits to working families across the UK. If I'm right all I can say is that I hope your grannies are looking forward to eating cat food.

I worry about my family and friends back in LDN, and overall, I don't see the evidence that they will be better off in any way with the UK out of the EU.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

delbert wrote:I wonder how many on the march were EU (non UK) citizens working and living over here?

If we must have another referendum then Soros's People's Vote should be another simple binary one:

1; Leave with the deal negotiated and agreed by the government and the EU.
2; Leave without accepting the deal negotiated by the government and the EU.
EvilC wrote:
Why?
We've already had "the should I stay or should I go vote", we voted to go. That ship has sailed, remain lost, if there has to be another vote, then it should only be about how we leave.
My personal belief is that at this stage of events all sides should be working together to get the best deal for the UK, not snivelling on about "peoples votes" and trying to remain. Any elected Tory or Labour representatives should be sticking to their party manifesto, if they insist on doing otherwise they should leave their party and join the LibDems. Don't even get me started on that utter waste of flesh Khan.........
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by vietnammer »

On the notion of another Brexit vote, not how but whether, what's the mechanism by which the previous referendum is overruled and a new one scheduled? Has to go through Parliament obviously, justifications have to be accepted. I voted remain, but that sounds like an awful bloody mess that could spark a serious constitutional and possibly civil crisis, if only on the notion that you can't take people's votes away in a country like the UK. I sympathise with the remain lobby insofar as the nature of Brexit could change, but a re-run of 2016? Forget it.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

They wouldn't need legislation to rule out the 1st one (I think) they could announce today they are ignoring it. They would need legislation to run a 2nd one and the EU to agree to halt the process of article 50.

Politically the cost would most likely be huge. To take a vote from the public, run with it for a couple of years and the arbitrarily ditch it, with no polling evidence that those who voted for the winner had changed their minds. To quote sir Humphrey 'thats very brave minister'.
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