Brexit referendum result aftermath

[monkeyhanger]

Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union? - The EU have said 100% NO to this ... you can't leave and keep the same benefits, it seems Labour just weren't listening ...

This was one of Labours six tests because it was something David Davis stated early on in the negotiations that we would be able to achieve. As the main opposition party they were doing their job in holding the government to account on this statement. Now that it is clear this was patently impossible Labour could say as much and drop it.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

As predicted, horse trading among the 27 has begun

From the BBC website

The Spanish government raised serious concerns about the status of Gibraltar as a result of Brexit during a meeting of EU27 ministers this morning.

The Spanish government told the gathering that two articles of the withdrawal agreement (184 and 3) taken together add up to Gibraltar remaining permanently as UK territory. Spain claims to have been taken by surprise when the draft was published last week.

They say Gibraltar’s status cannot be part of the “territorial scope” of the future relationship.

They also say the transition period should have a Gibraltar-specific element and should only be extendable for a maximum of one year, not the two years mooted by the European Commission.

European diplomats say Spain’s concerns appeared serious and genuine, but most member states and the European Commission and the European Council don’t agree with Madrid’s reading of the text and are seeking to provide reassurance.

In the worst case scenario Spain might not consent to the final deal.

More likely, they’ll be convinced by some additional language. But it’s definitely a speed-bump on the road to the special Brexit summit on Sunday.

Separately, several EU member states raised concerns about when they will be shown the final draft of the political declaration on the framework for the future relationship and whether they will be shown in before it’s published.

Italy's budget, Poland's courts and Hungary's government next up?

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

This was one of Labours six tests because it was something David Davis stated early on in the negotiations that we would be able to achieve. As the main opposition party they were doing their job in holding the government to account on this statement. Now that it is clear this was patently impossible Labour could say as much and drop it.

This is another of these convenient misquotes, that has come to be accepted as fact. What he said was

What was on the ballot paper was leaving the European Union. I am afraid that it is very difficult to see how we can leave the European Union and still stay inside the single market, with all the commitments that go with that. What we have come up with—I hope to persuade her that this is a very worthwhile aim—is the idea of a comprehensive free trade agreement and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver the exact same benefits as we have, but also enable my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Trade to go and form trade deals with the rest of the world, which is the real upside of leaving the European Union.

Nothing there that says the aim will be achieved or the idea realised.

Labour have hitched their wagon to this (I agree they thought they were being clever). Davis says its an idea and an aim, labour say any they can't support a deal that doesn't provide it. Its a very different position. How they will get out of it is to come up with new rules after they are elected (they won't be in the manifesto, that will stay with the current 6).

[Monkeybubbles]

If the six tests are impossible, the only other option is remain.

Nope, the other option is that Labour fabricate a cover story and lie through their teeth. That's what'll happen.

[bubbles1966]

As predicted, horse trading among the 27 has begun

Running down the clock here will yield compromises and options that don't appear to exist at the moment.

Corbyn says he 'will not countenance No Deal Brexit" - so his default position has to be to back May's Deal if that's the only option on the table to prevent no deal.

Interesting article on the BBC website today about the 1971 vote in parliament to join the EEC. MPs were given a free vote.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

The DUP abstained in tonight's votes on the finance bill...

[the pink palermo]

I reckon we would sooner give up the North of Ireland than Gibraltar.

It's going to be fun watching Barnier buying off 27 countries to get them to say yes .

If I was running Greece I'd insist on full debt relief from the European bank, or no deal.

The Italians will want their budget passed.

The Germans will probably settle for a decent centre back.

As of now though there must be doubts as to whether May and Barnier can get the necessary approval they each need.

[IronworksDave]

Corbyn got short shrift at the CBI. Telling the business community you intend to 'acquire' 10% in all their companies was obviously not a friend winner ... so a tough audience ... although he spoke very well the gist of the Labour 'plan' is that they will get a better deal than May ... no explanation on how or what that will look like, which is why it was so roundly rejected ...

There is no 'better deal' ... with the UK's position weakened by internal division the EU will extract a tougher Deal not a weaker one if we had to negotiate all over again ... that said nobody wants a No Deal scenario so 'tweaks' will no doubt happen, but nothing major will change ...

Looks like it's May's Deal or nothing come December ... watch the MP's when put under the headlights all fold and vote it through ... voting it down by any MP from either side could see them rounded on by the voters at the next GE ... when it comes to it they will all look after self-interest first ....

The EU will vote it through ... to many Countries/People with their hands in the trough to vote against the continued gravy-train ... they will just see the UK's 50 billion payment and start thinking about their share ...

[westham,eggyandchips]

I haven't seen or heard anything from Corbyn to suggest he could negotiate a better deal than anybody. It aint Romford Market FFS!

[SammyLeeWasOffside]

The DUP abstained in tonight's votes on the finance bill...

Of all the stuff being slung at her I am surprised this hasn't made more fuss. Had she done slightly better at the GE May would have been happy to fracture the union.

[Etonhammer]

It is quite something to see the situation our leaders have put us in.
Frankly the most traitorous act I have seen in my lifetime.

The remain camp have been very effective in muddying the waters to such an extent that ‘project fear’ has won. We will remain tied to the EU in all but name but be a few billion less for some vague assurances that we will be a quasi-independent country (but still dictated to by Brussels).

The Tories have made such a hash of this it has the possible ramifications of ushering in a Corbyn Government whilst remaining ‘in Europe’ like some disabled Siamese Twin.

Just remember where you were when Democracy in this country died. Some people always knew it was on the critical list through the continuous federalization of Europe but everyone must now see how an election result can be ignored/overturned, proving once and for all that they, ‘our leaders’ have no regard for you, your opinions and will dictate to you any time they choose. You Proles.

Some of us wonder what has happened to this country, I know ‘new’ Labour wanted to change the face of Britain but it now seems the Gramsciesque ‘march through the institutions’ has been achieved; simultaneously stupefying and emasculating the population.

The only positive thing I can see is that JC, McDonut, Baroness Thornberry, Shami, Dianne Vader et al will run the country for a while. I can’t wait to see all the young revolutionaries feel the full force of the ‘professional socialists’….that’ll learn them.

[Aycliffe]

It is quite something to see the situation our leaders have put us in.
Frankly the most traitorous act I have seen in my lifetime.

The remain camp have been very effective in muddying the waters to such an extent that ‘project fear’ has won. We will remain tied to the EU in all but name but be a few billion less for some vague assurances that we will be a quasi-independent country (but still dictated to by Brussels).

The Tories have made such a hash of this it has the possible ramifications of ushering in a Corbyn Government whilst remaining ‘in Europe’ like some disabled Siamese Twin.

Just remember where you were when Democracy in this country died. Some people always new it was on the critical list through the continuous federalization of Europe but everyone must now see how an election result can be ignored/overturned, proving once and for all that they, ‘our leaders’ have no regard for you, your opinions and will dictate to you any time they choose. You Proles.

Some of us wonder what has happened to this country, I know ‘new’ Labour wanted to change the face of Britain but it now seems the Gramsciesque ‘march through the institutions’ has been achieved; simultaneously stupefying and emasculating the population.

The only positive thing I can see is that JC, McDonut, Baroness Thornberry, Shami, Dianne Vader et al will run the country for a while. I can’t wait to see all the young revolutionaries feel the full force of the ‘professional socialists’….that’ll learn them.

Good post, pretty much sums up how I feel

[sendô]

The DUP abstained in tonight's votes on the finance bill...

Of all the stuff being slung at her I am surprised this hasn't made more fuss. Had she done slightly better at the GE May would have been happy to fracture the union.

It's a clear shot across the bows for the DUP - keep your promises over NI not being cut adrift from GB or else we'll vote you down.

The Tories have made such a hash of this

Indeed.

Remember in 2015 when they told us what chaos the country would be if we voted for Milliband?
Remember in 2017 when they told us what chaos the country would be if we voted for Corbyn?

It's hard to imagine a scenario whereby Brexit could have gone worse.

[Big George]

It is quite something to see the situation our leaders have put us in.
Frankly the most traitorous act I have seen in my lifetime.

The remain camp have been very effective in muddying the waters to such an extent that ‘project fear’ has won. We will remain tied to the EU in all but name but be a few billion less for some vague assurances that we will be a quasi-independent country (but still dictated to by Brussels).

The Tories have made such a hash of this it has the possible ramifications of ushering in a Corbyn Government whilst remaining ‘in Europe’ like some disabled Siamese Twin.

Just remember where you were when Democracy in this country died. Some people always new it was on the critical list through the continuous federalization of Europe but everyone must now see how an election result can be ignored/overturned, proving once and for all that they, ‘our leaders’ have no regard for you, your opinions and will dictate to you any time they choose. You Proles.

Some of us wonder what has happened to this country, I know ‘new’ Labour wanted to change the face of Britain but it now seems the Gramsciesque ‘march through the institutions’ has been achieved; simultaneously stupefying and emasculating the population.

The only positive thing I can see is that JC, McDonut, Baroness Thornberry, Shami, Dianne Vader et al will run the country for a while. I can’t wait to see all the young revolutionaries feel the full force of the ‘professional socialists’….that’ll learn them.

"I voted for a unicorn! why can't I have my unicorn?"

[Etonhammer]

"I voted for a unicorn! why can't I have my unicorn?"

Because its covered in Russian interference (but not Soros), old people, data manipulation, signs on buses, (but not signs featuring skinheads), stupid people who didn't know what they were voting for, the inherent racism of the UK population, Latin Americans with a ‘true’ love of Parliamentary process and a political class that will never, ever make the mistake of asking the very people they represent anything, ever again.

Regardless of your position on the EU, we are now witnessing the Government actively working against the results of a free vote…what price democracy now? Unless you have a deep love of the EU where history tells us they just keep voting until they get the result they want.

My congratulations to the Remainers………………but be careful what you wish for, unless of course it is the United States of Europe...or wasn't that explained to you during the referendum??

I just can’t work out if it is Orwellian or Kafkaesque?

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

Spain: unless things change we'll reject deal

.....................................

"As things stand today if there are no changes regarding Gibraltar, Spain will vote no on Brexit," said Mr Sánchez.

Throughout the Brexit negotiations, Spain - along with Ireland and Cyprus - has conducted separate talks with the UK about specific border issues.

On Monday Spanish Foreign Minister Josep Borrell spelt out that the draft Brexit deal failed to make clear that talks on Gibraltar were "separate negotiations" and not part of future talks between the UK and EU.

.....................................

Article 184 of the draft Brexit deal says the EU and the UK will seek to "negotiate rapidly the agreements governing their future relationship" between the official day of withdrawal on 29 March 2019 and the end of a transition period in December 2020.

But Spain believes the article in question is ambiguous and wants to ensure that this does not apply to the future of Gibraltar. It insists on its future right to discuss the status of the peninsula bilaterally with the UK, and is seeking clarity that this draft deal will allow it to do so.

more...

The first of many I suspect.

[the pink palermo]

I just can’t work out if it is Orwellian or Kafkaesque?

Shakespearean , What started out as a farce, has turned in to comedy which will be followed by a tragedy.

[Etonhammer]

[delbert]

Considering the negotiations between ourselves and Spain over Gibraltar was all but sorted out bunging that bit in the draft deal is another example of incompetence, it's actually moved things backwards.
Unless of course it was added as a deliberate attempt to strangle it at birth and let someone else take the blame.........

[sendô]

You've got to chuckle at the Spanish. As if they'll ever peacefully get Gibraltar back.