Brexit referendum result aftermath

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Rays Rock
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Rays Rock »

If she goes, her deal should go with her !
There’s no way the public will accept the Parliamentary logic if she goes and her deal is accepted.
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Monkeybubbles
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Monkeybubbles »

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote: Isn't that often just perspective though?
Sometimes. It's just a cutesy aphorism, but most of the time I've found it to be pretty accurate as a shorthand character reference.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Rays Rock »

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit- ... =applenews" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1 million, some say more !
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Monkeybubbles wrote: Sometimes. It's just a cutesy aphorism, but most of the time I've found it to be pretty accurate as a shorthand character reference.
The 2nd part of it probably works that way, the first bit depends entirely on what a better world means. People just agreeing with things you like for example isn't a guarantee they are after a better world, most of us probably like to think the things we stand for are for the good of people. Often as not its not that simple.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by sendô »

You've got to love the interpretations of democracy in this thread.

5m people sign a petition, but it's "nothing to see here" and "fake news", because people are scared that people might have changed their minds about a binary question 3 years on?
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

sendô wrote:You've got to love the interpretations of democracy in this thread.

5m people sign a petition, but it's "nothing to see here" and "fake news", because people are scared that people might have changed their minds about a binary question 3 years on?
There is very little, if any, evidence that people have changed their minds. What has changed is the electorate. There are lots of spun polls from peoples vote that allow press releases claiming a huge change of heart but the detil usually shows no such thing (or at least equal support for the case they don't want to make).

5m people want to remain isn't new is it?
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Turns to Stone »

For me, it's not about changing one's mind. It's about changing the question. When the original vote was laid at people's doors, it was a simple 'stay or leave'. Now it would appear that we have slightly different options.

Is the deal on the table any good? Well it's not for me. For me and my personally circumstances, it's a bad deal. However for others? I don't know. The point is that the deal should improve the lives of the majority of the country, and if, it looks to the politicians that the deal is so bad, that it actually might make the lives of their constituents worse, then isn't it the right thing for them to look at it again?

In 2016, clearly enough people thought that our current deal with the EU was bad for us, and that it needed to be looked at. So we looked at it, and the public voted against it. But now we are further down the line we have a new possible deal, and we should look at it again. Is it going to make life better or worse for the people that voted for it (and those that didn't)? That's the big question in my mind. And just like the referendum, I'm not qualified to decide that.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

The leave part of simple stay or leave is still there. If that was the option and the choice we can do that right now. Its by far the most popular option when PV or the Indy do their polls and offer choices - they tend to not mention this bit in the press releases though.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by TheHandOfDog »

sendô wrote:You've got to love the interpretations of democracy in this thread.

5m people sign a petition, but it's "nothing to see here" and "fake news", because people are scared that people might have changed their minds about a binary question 3 years on?
That petition shows nothing really when you look at the breakdown of where the votes come from.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you click on % of electorate and filter that way, you have to scroll down to 124th place Devon to see the first leave constituency, I don't think it proves anyone is changing their minds actually, quite the opposite.

The petition also has ease of access on it's side and length of time that people would be able to cast their vote.

Edit: Also like to add that I think that the petition happening was great, at least certain individuals and some remainers can stop hiding their Europhile status and actually come out with what they want which is to cancel Brexit altogether. The same sort of wronguns who spouted 'We accept the 2016 referendum result, what wasn't decided was the means of departure' bull****.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by York Ham(mer) »

Theresa May made a statement this afternoon on Brexit:

Extension to April 12th happening whatever MPs want and even if they voted against it.

Meaningful vote is not happening tomorrow.

Government will oppose Letwin plan for indicative votes. She will regard any votes on Brexit options in the Commons as purely advisory

Her Brexit, No Brexit or Slow Brexit.

'Unless this House agrees to it no deal will not happen. No Brexit must not happen. And a slow Brexit is not a Brexit that will bring the British people together'
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Samba »

Monkeybubbles wrote:An old feller I used to work with had a catchphrase that went: "There are two types of people: those that want to make the world a better place, and those that want to make it a better place for themselves".
SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:Isn't that often just perspective though?
Too much. There's too much f**king perspective now..
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

York Ham(mer) wrote: Government will oppose Letwin plan for indicative votes. She will regard any votes on Brexit options in the Commons as purely advisory
She hasn't really any option. If parliament changes its mind and favours say a customs union the EU may well say that not an option without xyz from your side. So we can say we would like a CU deal but she can't take that as binding as it puts us in exactly the same position as the bit people hate about the backstop.

May - We must be in a CU
France - ok give up fishing rights
Spain - the price is Gibraltar
May - but you want us in a CU
Everyone - that was before you were tied to it

It also doesn't remove the need for a backstop as whatever the HoC indicate may take years to negotiate as well. So the transition runs out we need a backstop.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by York Ham(mer) »

Brexit debate in the Commons begins. Three amendments selected:

Labour amendment - calls on the government to provide parliamentary time this week for indicative votes.

Letwin/Grieve/Benn amendment - takes power to control business in the Commons away from the government on Wednesday to allow MPs to put forward business motions relating to Brexit.

Beckett amendment - provides for a vote on whether to leave with no deal or request an extension for Parliament to agree on a different approach, if U.K. is seven days away from leaving without a deal.

Voting after 10pm.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Junco Partner »

In other news today...

EU confirms that it will do single market & Customs Union compliance checks away from the Irish border in the event of no deal in order to keep the border open.

Don't which is worse, the duplicity of the EU & RoI government or the sheer stupidity of the Tory negotiators who fell for it hook line and sinker.

The border issue was always hype & lies.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by delbert »

TheHandOfDog wrote: That petition shows nothing really when you look at the breakdown of where the votes come from.

If you click on % of electorate and filter that way, you have to scroll down to 124th place Devon to see the first leave constituency, I don't think it proves anyone is changing their minds actually, quite the opposite.

The petition also has ease of access on it's side and length of time that people would be able to cast their vote.

Edit: Also like to add that I think that the petition happening was great, at least certain individuals and some remainers can stop hiding their Europhile status and actually come out with what they want which is to cancel Brexit altogether. The same sort of wronguns who spouted 'We accept the 2016 referendum result, what wasn't decided was the means of departure' bull****.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course it may be fake and not work at all..........
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by smuts »

Samba wrote: Too much. There's too much f**king perspective now..
Gone proper Barber Shop Raga.
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SammyLeeWasOffside
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

Junco Partner wrote: The border issue was always hype & lies.
Yep she was screwed from that day in January when she said 'this agreement we signed means xyz' and the EU said no it doesn't. However had she called the bluff (or at least seen it) she would have had 18 months of stories about restarting the troubles. The mail bombs that have barely had a mention would have been a crisis bigger than knife crime.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by Junco Partner »

Negotiating competently would have been a start.
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by SammyLeeWasOffside »

HoC packed to the rafters :lol:

Currently discussing Margaret Becketts amendment to stop us just drifting out if we haven't sorted anything out in time. Or in other words a backstop
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Re: Brexit referendum result aftermath

Post by 666 hammer »

Over a million people difference seem to only matter when remain complain.
The margin was close but line up over 1 million people against the smaller i think there will be a visible difference.
But what do us plebs know?
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