Coventry City 1 West Ham Utd 2 (19/11/11)

[the pink palermo]

Where will Collison fit in the middle we already have Diop Noble Nolan plus Lansbury?

I'll show you in the Derby match thread .

[Hammer83]

Every other player who wants a new deal will use the £55k as the benchmark , and point out that in their opinion , they are worth deals of a comprable stature . When Robert Green - an England international - leaves on a free transfer due to the Board (s) not giving him the pay deal he has sought for several seasons, when James Tomkins goes for a song, when Mark Noble goes for a song....because we have spent all of our money on one single player , well we will find out how good he is then

But that's not going to happen though is it? Green will go he hasn't been happy for a long time he wanted a new deal about 3 years ago Tomkins is young and on a very low wage,if we go up he will get a new deal that will reflect his status. I really don't see him leaving soon(unless we fail to go up) at this moment in time he is being paid less than what he should be.I think something along the lines of 20-25k pw is a fair deal for him he won't get a better offer than that elsewhere.

Also this ''because we spent all our money on one player comment' how does that work is he earning all of the wage bill 70% of our turnover? there is plenty to go around.

Nolan is overpaid for his football ability but he exploited a club who wanted a high profile player with great leadership skills and 30 goals in his previous two seasons to his name prior to joining us this allowed him to get that kind of deal.

[Bobby Orangeboom]

With the exception of Nolan, in terms of value for money , Sam has done well so far .In fairness , even Nolan, based upon last seasons scoring record , he probably paid no more than par , which is offset by getting in Faye and Diop for nowt .

Where is the naivity in that ?

It was pointing out how well the Manager has done in terms of value for money with the exception of one single signing - who happens to be Kevin Nolan .For a second division club , signing one player for £4m (plus an easy route for Demba Ba) , on a reportedly £55k per week ,ain't smart .It makes him the highest paid player in the division , and despite all the "insider" comments stating all the other players love, respect and want to move in with him and have his children - no direct quotes of course - putting so many eggs in one basket by the board and Manager was not , in my opinion, a good deal .He will, effectively be a 30 year old player by the next time he plays in the PL , with 4 years left on his deal .What other club would pay £4m in transfer fees and nearly £11m in wages for a 30 year old - which is what he will be ? So, Sam and the board may have paid a "par" price , but frankly if that was the market price, we should have shopped elsewhere .

Every other player who wants a new deal will use the £55k as the benchmark , and point out that in their opinion , they are worth deals of a comprable stature . When Robert Green - an England international - leaves on a free transfer due to the Board (s) not giving him the pay deal he has sought for several seasons, when James Tomkins goes for a song, when Mark Noble goes for a song....because we have spent all of our money on one single player , well we will find out how good he is then .I've argued consistently on this board that one of the key aspects to a successful team is having a balanced pay structure, and the signing of Nolan is no more than a continuation of the nonsense deals offered by the icelandics .

So, yes, someone has been naive, but it ain't me ( and it ain't you btw) .......

Now, if you want to debate Nolan as a player , we'll continue in the Nolan thread, but I've said nothing naive on this one .....

Once again, i think it's naive of you to be saying that Kevin Nolan is a bad signing when he's been an ever present in a West Ham Team that has more of a backbone & more wins on the Road in the last 3 Months than we have had in 2 Years without a backbone & a leader.

He IS off his Game at the moment but he is still giving our Team much more in an area that you are completely overlooking & an area that we haven't had since the day Lucas Neill left & coincidently, as a Team, all of a sudden we're not folding at the first hint of a bit of pressure or when going behind.

Completely overlooking his leadership skills which are clear with one look at our results & league position this Season just because he isn't the Footballer that you expected him to be, is not fair & a bit naive in my opinion.

& the other red bit that i highlighted, you will argue consistently that one of the key aspects to a successful Team is having a balanced pay structure ( You're an Accountant aren't you ?? ) & i will argue consistently that one of the keys of a successful Team is having a good leader, & that's what Nolan is & that's one of the big reasons we're sitting in an automatic promotion place right now.

[the pink palermo]

Bob

I'm not an accountant .I've had a few insults chucked my way on this board, but that's a new low .

Personally I believe the role of Captain is exaggerated , and in no way compensates - even if he is a good one - for effectively playing a man short .

I would contend that without his presence, the team may be even further up the table than we are currently as we have other players that could cover the Captaincy to a reasonable degree , and better players than him ( when the squad is fully fit) not getting a game .

In terms of his being value for money - which was the comment I made on this thread - if he cannot boss a game in this division , or even hold his own as a player , then what chance is there he will do so up one level ? Is he another player we have bought a week after he has peaked , and we end up playing , and paying, him as he sees his days out ?

Meanwhile, our younger players whither on the vine, get sold to other clubs and suddennly look like world beaters ?

He's soaked up too much of our budget in my opinion .Hence why I believe he isn't great value for money .Doesn't make him crap, doesn't mean he is the anti christ, just means we may have been mugged (again) .

[Bobby Orangeboom]

Bob

I'm not an accountant .I've had a few insults chucked my way on this board, but that's a new low .

Personally I believe the role of Captain is exaggerated , and in no way compensates - even if he is a good one - for effectively playing a man short .

I would contend that without his presence, the team may be even further up the table than we are currently as we have other players that could cover the Captaincy to a reasonable degree , and better players than him ( when the squad is fully fit) not getting a game .

In terms of his being value for money - which was the comment I made on this thread - if he cannot boss a game in this division , or even hold his own as a player , then what chance is there he will do so up one level ? Is he another player we have bought a week after he has peaked , and we end up playing , and paying, him as he sees his days out ?

Meanwhile, our younger players whither on the vine, get sold to other clubs and suddennly look like world beaters ?

He's soaked up too much of our budget in my opinion .Hence why I believe he isn't great value for money .Doesn't make him crap, doesn't mean he is the anti christ, just means we may have been mugged (again) .

Sorry, don't know why i thought you was..

I believe that the role of Captain is undervalued, the reason why i believe that is because of the last few seasons, then the start of this one..

& i'll never agree with anyone who says we got mugged by bringing in a real Leader to our Club & a good Captain at a time when we were in utter disarray when we'd been rudderless for the past 4 Years where a good Captain was concerned especially when he chips in with the amount of Goals that he will this Year from Midfield too..

[Cuenca 'ammer]

Bob

I agree that we had a lack of leadership with Upson, but I reiterate that he was a worse centre half than he was captain. Look at what Parker brought to the non role. He shouted hard at West Brom and helped out in that respect. Now having a pretty decent centre half pairing added to Faye's experience I think that shows what a piss poor centre back Upson was/is.

I suggested elsewhere that we got more from Upson leaving (and filling his position with help for the two "rookies") than we added with Nolan. And dropping down a division didn't hurt either. With the players that we have we should be where we are. The fact that Nolan gets an automatic selection spot, his play, which even by his admirers standards are well below par, is what I disagree with. We are still being outplayed in midfield with both he and Baldock playing. Neither defend well. So it's down to Diop, Noble and Collison. That is a recipe for disaster. You yourself said in another post I believe that we got worryingly outplayed at Hull, creating minimal chances. Yet again yesterday. Now it's fine, we're winning. It may continue and I hope it does. I think that you overvalue the captain's armband but you say we undervalue it. I wouldn't mind if Nolan was singlehandedly hauling us through these games as did Parker sometimes last season and RvP does for the Gunners. He isn't. So we are asked to give him a starting berth, moving other players around to accommodate him all for the "intangible" that we can't see.

Me ? I think it's more like the King's New Clothes. And you think that they're invisible !!!!

[Denbighammer]

Casinos, hotels and pop concerts are all well and good, but it's football that the ground was built for, and perhaps the Coventry City Board aren't investing sufficently in their team, having seen all the money get ploughed into bricks and mortar .

Lets hope Gold and Sullivan take note.

[LincolnshireHammer]

Anyone notice the about of beach balls that were getting knocked about at the start? Loadsa them!

[FEH]

Could anyone upload the goals to where we can watch it from oversees? Thx

Seconded! Overseas Hammers are very derived! Please help

[stubbsy07]

Nolan must have an appearance clause in his contract. He just shouldn't be playing at the moment.

We got the result but the team is so immobile and slow that it doesn't and never will make great viewing. The aim is to get promoted and we will probably do that - but it will not be pleasing on the eye.

I've said it before and got shot down - but George McCartney is very poor. But unfortunately he is the best we have in that position.

Should Carlton play from the start? Or should he remain as an impact substitute? Personally I'd keep bringing him off the bench.

[west ham15]

Nolan must have an appearance clause in his contract. He just shouldn't be playing at the moment.

We got the result but the team is so immobile and slow that it doesn't and never will make great viewing. The aim is to get promoted and we will probably do that - but it will not be pleasing on the eye.

I've said it before and got shot down - but George McCartney is very poor. But unfortunately he is the best we have in that position.

Should Carlton play from the start? Or should he remain as an impact substitute? Personally I'd keep bringing him off the bench.

Gets the ball and hooooooooooooof

[Denbighammer]

Gets the ball and hooooooooooooof

Yeah most of the time he hoofed it straight out of play. Like watching Bywater in that playoff final....

[badgermax]

With the exception of Nolan, in terms of value for money , Sam has done well so far . .

i think hindsight makes it easy to dismiss Nolan, but at the time we had just been relegated and Nolans signing was a big statement of intent by the management & board. It probably kept one or two players here that may have left plus it also may have attracted others to come here. Look at it as a loss leader if you will (as an accountant you'd know all about that PP )

[fmgod]

People moaning about Mccartney, on Saturday his passing was poor but at all times he had no one infront of him to pass to, noone to give and go to, what was he meant to do, Baldock was down the left sometimes but straight wanted to go inside as he had no left footed, the tactics made McCartney look a lot worse as he had no real player infront of him to give it to, unlike Faubert could give it to Noble/Collison at points.

[hammer_lad]

I've said it before and got shot down - but George McCartney is very poor. But unfortunately he is the best we have in that position.

I said that straight after the millwall game and the same thing happened to me. We know we are right!

[taffhammer]

Casinos, hotels and pop concerts are all well and good, but it's football that the ground was built for, and perhaps the Coventry City Board aren't investing sufficently in their team, having seen all the money get ploughed into bricks and mortar .


Lets hope Gold and Sullivan take note.

But it's a football ground built away from the city centre and with no train station, i feel sorry for the Cov support ,how many have been put off by the fact that unless you drive it's a nightmare getting away from every fortnight. Luckily we'll be spoilt for train links if we go to a stadium with casino's and pop concerts.Imagine ending up with a ground out by the A13 or other wasteland, it could happen.

[fmgod]

Not only that but you have to drive and then pay to park and then wait to get out, what a joke, the stadium made me realised I so hope we stay at Upton Park and don't move to something like they had next to a massive Tesco, Casino and just soulless, you need pubs and booking near a ground for me and not big multi nationals that are like like mini-Lakesides.

[thejackhammer]

People moaning about Mccartney, on Saturday his passing was poor but at all times he had no one infront of him to pass to, Noone to give and go to, what was he meant to do, Baldock was down the left sometimes but straight wanted to go inside as he had no left footed, the tactics made McCartney look a lot worse as he had no real player infront of him to give it to, unlike Faubert could give it to Noble/Collison at points.

If he had Noone to give and go to, there wouldn't be a problem

[Denbighammer]

But it's a football ground built away from the city centre and with no train station, i feel sorry for the Cov support ,how many have been put off by the fact that unless you drive it's a nightmare getting away from every fortnight. Luckily we'll be spoilt for train links if we go to a stadium with casino's and pop concerts.Imagine ending up with a ground out by the A13 or other wasteland, it could happen.

I agree to a point. However, anyone waiting in that massive queue for those double decker 'football match' buses wants their heads testing. I went past them, round the Tesco (keep it on my left) and got a bus on the main road into town. I was back in the pub in the city centre in about 10minutes. Not sure why so many Cov fans were stood in that massive queue unless they were very stupid or those buses were some kind of park and ride scheme thing.

[taffhammer]

Park and ride i'm guessing but either way if your teams playing bad then thats the way to lose your support in the long term.
Why didn't they go ahead with the train station they were going to build them. It must be fun coming out of a concert with 40 000 there.