|An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.
It was not the tactics that failed but the personnel which could have been avoided if we had not changed a winning team.
Personally it was no conicidence the goals were conceded by the two players in question. Both should have been on the bench at the start and used tactically later on as the game panned out.
I gave Cole a 6/10 and Faye a 5/10. Harsh maybe but they both cost us points IMHO.
So you think playing 4-3-3 but with different personnel yesterday would have had a different outcome in the first half?
Their opener was the third such shot that Mutch had had after our defence gifted him possession taking too long to look for a pass that wasn't there. The writing had been on the wall, anyone with any tactical nous could see it. It says a lot that you can't.
Bit crap but for any who didn't see the goals like me a bazillion miles away, here they are. Mods, if I doth offend or break the rules, please delete.
http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/we ... il-9-2012/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
3-3. Cracking good fun. Wish I could have been there.
Last edited by rsnwhu on Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I could have accepted Cole in from the start at a push as Taylor has not been playing well lately. Maynard on the left with Cole up top would have been very attacking and most definitely a 4-3-3 rather than 4-5-1.
To change the back four IMHO was suicidal for three reasons -
1) First clean sheet in ages. BFS wanted 6 from 6. Part 1 achieved yet decided to accomodate Faye.
2) Reid/Tomkins have been our best partnership. Stats will probably back this up too.
3) Demel was available as he was on the bench. If he cant manage two games in three days he would not have made the bench. Another 60 minutes was do-able and would have meant a settled back four.
Tinkering cost us 2 points.
ill quote my ****ing self cause no one replied i work 50+ hours a week i dont have time to do **** all some one just tell me.. please?
Their first goal was a shot from outside the area, the second was a 1 on 1 they put under green, and their third was a volley outside the box hit into the floor which bounced into the corner.
Their goals were scored by Mutch, King & Burke, so no own goal
sorry about the attitude, ive only jsut got back from work and I cycle back
Really. Think there's a lot of hindsight in that. Faye has been in the running for HOTY. I woukld certainly make him and tomka the best pairing. I dont think many would put Reid ahead of Faye on perfomrances this season. And to argue Demel, anonymous going fwd and subbed after 60 minutes 3 days previously should have played. Well neither of us knows his precise level of fitness.
fact is, we got caught with an ultra attacking 4-3-3 and no decent defenisve midfielder (a decent defrnsive mid would have conceded a yellow after the horror pass from McCartney rather than let Brum get clean possession when he was robbed, as O Neill did).
I only saw the 2nd half yesterday and thought West Ham played some cracking football. I know many are unhappy with Big Sam's methods, but I saw massive effort and desire in those 45 minutes. Still reckon you can get promotion. Good luck!!
Count yourself lucky you didn't see the first...
Glad I'm not the only one who could see this.
Just want to say that the bloke who saw fit to abuse, threaten and half come to blows with an old (mid 70s at a guess) couple in the Bobby Moore Upper is a piece of scum.
I didn't see what started it all but nothing warranted that reaction towards an elderly couple. In addition a number of kids around him were scared by his behaviour, including his own two. F-ing disgrace and I hope the **** gets banned for life.
The result to me last night was in some ways irrelevant. Everyone of us inside that stadium got our money's worth and watched a fight back which would not have been possible had each player not put in 100%. Massively impressive display in the second half from the team
No. You said that all of them (Santon included) were "major stars".
Match has been made into FIFA 12 challenge of the week
Looks like EA enjoyed the game
Finally got to watch the game on a late download. I'm not a huge fan of Allardyce due to his normal style of play but got to say I thought he got very little wrong tactically against Brum and generally our style of play in the last few games has improved even if results haven't.
I've seen a few comments on here about how he was out thought by Hughton in the 1st half but we were absolutely dominant. The first 20 minutes Brum couldn't get the ball and the barring a suicidal spell of 5 minutes this game would have been 3 points. Very similar to the Reading game. First goal Faye got caught square and for some reason was hesitant to clear out the Brum player before he got his shot away qand this was following McCartney putting the midfiled in the **** with a very sloppy square ball. If that pass goes down the line instead of square then there is no danger. 2nd goal Cole has loose control but more importantly he has come very deep to collect the ball and got behind the midfield three. If Tomkins goes line instead of to Cole, no dange. 3rd goal poor header from the incoming corner and worse attempt at header from Cole. No matter what you do tactically you can't compensate for poor defensive decision making by individuals and that has cost us dear first against Reading and then against Brum. I thought Cole personally had a good game, even in the first half but was involved in 2 of their goals so no doubt will be slated.
Second half we got the ball forward faster and more direct but it wasn;t aimless humping to an isolated Cole like we have seen before. Nolan and Vaz Te were never far away and therefore Cole was much more effective and able to impose himself. If Cole has no support around him it's easy for teams to double up on him. Get players around him and they can't do that.
I think the fight and commitment was evident and work rate exceptional. We look so much better when we commit bodies forward and I sincerely hope we continue to play this way as most teams will not be able to cope with us and I would fancy us over any of the teams in the play offs over 2 legs. Just need to keep our concentration at the back and avoid the sloppy and silly individual errors
Good post hkh I agree with pretty much all of that. I find myself feeling some sympathy for BFS. There's no doubt that his 4-3-3 is a load of flannel and that our usual set up is 4-5-1 despite his claims, yet monday we genuinely did play 4-3-3. I wouldn't suggest Sam took any notice but it is what WHU fans have been clamouring for - to be more aggressive at home and go with more than one up front.
What happens as a result? : we get outnumbered and overrun in midfield. There's no way through made worse by our standard lack of movement off the ball. Passes are made for the sake of moving the ball rather than making progress, and invite mistakes should the receiver miscontrol, and suddenly the ball is in the back of the net .... again.
I think the main problem was nerves which unsurprising disappeared when we were chasing the game but the fact that we looked so much better bombarding Brum's penalty area in the second half compared to trying to play along the floor in the first, can surely only serve to re-inforce in Sam's mind his convictions about the benefits of the direct approach
To me, the first half finally proved the problem Allardyce has got.
The fans want the players to get the ball down and pass it, Alardyce knows they are not good enough to play that way.
First 2 goals we conceded were entirely due to mistakes playing short passes on the deck.
Our current crop of players are only good enough to play that way, when they meet a team like Barnsley who stand 5 yards away and watch us play, any team who press and close down agressively will force mistakes out of our lot.
If we try and short pass our way through the play-offs I'm utterly convinced that we will still be in the Championship next season, with probably an even less gifted group of players, who are even more unlikely to be able to play pass and move football.
Sadly swash I'm inclined to believe you are right ... except I'm more upbeat about our play-off chances, which probably only means I'm more delusional than you.
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