West Ham Utd 1-1 Queens Park Rangers (19/01/13)

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Doc H Ball
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Doc H Ball »

61dicksey wrote:surely he should have been covering the near post more or at the very best come out to tackle Remy?
I think he expected Remy to have a touch rather than slot it home first time. I'm no great fan of JJ, especially in the bright light of the fabulous Cesar, but there was sod all he could do about that goal.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Billydinho »

speculator wrote:Jussi with the deep sea divers boots on again.
61dicksey wrote:I thought his positioning for the goal was poor , surely he should have been covering the near post more or at the very best come out to tackle Remy?
Just so static for a keeper
You should never get beaten at your near post. He should have been saying to Remy, put it across me and find the far corner.

It's not as if he took the shot early either, plenty of time to get his angles right.

Another error which people will overlook in their quest to say he's doing OK. Complete liability.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by rudeboydubs »

joe cole is our taraabt and he should be the one picking the ball up and slipping through balls either out wide for wingers or straight to the striker imo
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by the pink palermo »

bubbles1966 wrote: Harsh, Pinks....
Yes, I know, I have a tendency to criticise the genuinely gifted and talented more than lesser players .I judge them to a different standard which is of course unfair , but that's me and I can't change that I'm afraid .
bubbles1966 wrote: When we get Joe Cole on the ball, we look much more capable than when we have Vaz Te, O'Neil etc etc.
I totally agree .Again, he's a talent, on the ball .Several times his delivery has been perfect - the balls for Collins goals the other week , a couple of crosses yesterday ........even his finish was spot on .
bubbles1966 wrote: The real fly in the ointment in the front 6 is Nolan presently. His passing has been terrible since Christmas.
Again, I agree , his passing has been dreadful , it's almost as if he has the wrong contact lenses in if you get my drift , but here's the rub , Sam can't leave him out and play Joe Cole in that position .

Sam has built his side around Nolan, to abandon him now would be a capitulation,which would be compounded by playing Cole in that central role .This is a battle for the phillisophical heartland of the club , the West Ham way as personified by Cole in a central role , flicks and tricks , against the hard working graft and nous / intelligence that some Managers tend to prefer .

Nolans talent is between his ears, Coles in his boots .
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Puff Daddy »

Loved Joe Cole's one yard tap in, I love those sort of goals, He taught our misfiring strikers a thing or two yesterday about the art of goal scoring. Get in there into goal scoring positions and it is actually, quite a lot easier than you think to stick that thing in the onion bag
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Hockley Hammer »

the pink palermo wrote:Sam has built his side around Nolan, to abandon him now would be a capitulation,which would be compounded by playing Cole in that central role .This is a battle for the phillisophical heartland of the club , the West Ham way as personified by Cole in a central role , flicks and tricks , against the hard working graft and nous / intelligence that some Managers tend to prefer .

Nolans talent is between his ears, Coles in his boots .
Spot on TPP. Speaking to two Chelsea season ticket holders the other week, they both hope that he does well for us, but both said that he is the modern day Glenn Hoddle - has never reached his real potential. I found this strange but despite his medals won at Chelsea, his England career, they both thought that with his ability he should have been THE player of the moment, but frustrated as often as he shined. I remember going with them to see him play a few times and he was not held in the high esteem with their crowd as he is here.

Funny how good footballing teams (and England) want him to be part of their side but struggle to find the right role for him.

Sam knows the exact role for Nolan and we keep questioning it every time we have a couple of poor results.

By the way, I can now join my Chelsea and Spurs supporting mates in wondering how we didn't beat one of the poorest PL sides I have seen. At least we scored against them!
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by whitechapel hammer »

the pink palermo wrote: Where is he supposed to be , and how quickly is he expected to be there when we lose the ball ? To my eyes at least we have conceded two goals since he has been picked where the opposition have torn upfield with acres of space where Cole should have been .

With freedom comes responsibility and it won't be long before Sam finds out what others have found out about Joe .

FWIW I am a huge fan of his talent .I'd love to play him in the "hole", except it doesn't really exist , I'd love to see him given a free role , but again I doubt it really exists - every player has a job to do for the team , whether it's Carlton's defensive duties at corners, Noble on the post at corners, Jarvis getting up and down the pitch for 90 minutes, working his b*llocks off .........

Nolan does a job for the team - you and I may not like the job he does , but he follows his Managers brief exactly , or at the very least tries to .Nolan isn't the most talented player in the world , we all know that , not many rate him as a midfielder at all , but he does what his Manager requires of him - and he has done that at three different clubs .

I wonder how many clubs have been happy that Joe has done as the Manager has asked ?

We all love watching Joe - he's got skill to burn , real talent , but it takes more than that .Ultimately Managers at other clubs have stopped trusting him, and he needs to be careful here because Sam won't suffer him unless he does exactly what he wants .He won't be slow to remind Joe the fans don't pick the team , he does , in other words the 35,005 in the ground don't get to vote , the fat guy on the touchline does .
Is it really true though that Cole neglects his defensive responsibilities? Is that not a bit of a myth? I mean maybe for Mourinho where at the absolute top level he can be ultra picky about a players ability to track back or be positionally perfect. Cole is definitely not perfect but he is not a man who shirks his duties. I'd argue that if Mourinho had found a place for Cole more centrally, in the way that Mata and Hazard do for Chelsea, then Cole would have been a significantly more influential player in England than he has been.

I think for a club like us, first season up, we are not in a position to turn down a creative talent like Joe Cole because very occasionally he is out of position defensively. We need that creative spark, because we have noone else to provide it. If he has, in your opinion, been at fault for 2 goals, then at least he has scored 1 and set up 2 in return. And that's the rub.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by irving boleyn »

Today was only the second time Nolan has been substituted, that was only for 4 minutes. The previous time it was done to avoid him getting a second yellow.

The inspirational bit is overdone..the squad are not suddenly going to be apathetic if he doesnt start.

On present form he is now a different player .

By all means play him with all the disadvantages it brings when he is gettin 5 goals in ten games...but it is now about 5 in 25.

His whole game was poor today, and Joe Cole showed he can chip in with goals in Nolans poaching territory.

This was probably our best eleven today yet couldnt beat the bottom team at home.

Come on Sam thought you were the great pragmatist..change things .

Sam's stock has gone down a bit in my eyes recently, not cos of results,I recall coming away from the home draw against Sunderland in a much better mood.

There has been no improvement for several months now.

Why cant he engineer some interpassing in the middle of the pitch which results in a scoring opportunity?

Why cant he admit there are alternatives to just one striker.?

He plays his best eleven I think,(Nolan apart) I cant remember being unhappy about his team selection...there just seems no tactical plan to score goals from players he knows so well now.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Bobby Orangeboom »

irving boleyn wrote:..there just seems no tactical plan to score goals from players he knows so well now.
You don't think he has a clear tactical plan to score a goal, even when one of his wide attacking players had more successful crosses than QPR had successful or unsuccessful, including corners ?

You don't think loaning Chamakh who was widely regarded a one of the best headers of the ball in Europe a couple of years ago, and loaning Carroll who is widely regarded as being the best header of the ball in Europe right now, shows no tactical plan ?

Whether you agree with the plan or not is irrelevant, to say there is no tactical plan to score goals is nonsense.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by The Gibbins »

Great performance yesterday, i dont think we will see a more dominant display for some time. Apart from their goal we were totally dominant and they didnt worry us once afterwards! That goal looked to be coming though, they broke a few times beforehand in the first half and our line was very high, we were playing a risk and got caught out.

Chamakh for me had a great performace...good presence, won every header, got on the end of oppurtunities. If he can get a bit of confidence i reckon he will bang some in as his positioning was excellent. I was disappointed he come off but he was probably knackered and Cole added energy and helped create the goal.

Yesterday still showed our weak link and that is scoring goals! How many chances do we want? Granted Cesar was excellent but we need to be converting some of the gifts we had yesterday.


As for QPR, cant see them staying up. Look quite frankly the awful side you would expect. I was hearing on MOTD and reading on twitter how Harry has improved them defensively. They were ok at the odd set piece but i thought they were shocking at the back and if it wasnt for their keeper they would have taken a proper hiding!
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by baritalia »

There should be no preferential treatment even if it comes to the captain. Sam knows how good our play was against Norwich when Nolan was suspended. We had no troubles scoring, creating opportunities and that was even without J Cole.

The thing is, he occupies the 2nd most important position on the field (just behind centre forward) and we can't afford to have a out of form player there, especially when we have better replacements.

Yes, he brings a lot to the team as a leader but we lack goals and he is partly guilty of that. We are in a vital part of the season where we can virtually achieve a survival and then push for whatever we want.

Shame it won't happen though. He refused to shake hands with Allardyce when he was taken off in 87' (!!!) even though he could hardly run back to the half-way line and did nothing in the whole game (except miss two chances he would normally bury).
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by prophet:marginal »

Puff Daddy wrote:Loved Joe Cole's one yard tap in, I love those sort of goals, He taught our misfiring strikers a thing or two yesterday about the art of goal scoring. Get in there into goal scoring positions and it is actually, quite a lot easier than you think to stick that thing in the onion bag
Its a fair point, save to note that its a lesson not for the striker - who's on a downward trajectory, having won the ball as its crossed - but for the Nolan-style player in the team.

In fairness to Vaz Te, its not a lesson he needs to learn. One of the best parts of his play is the ability to get quickly to the far post, if we're attacking from the other side.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by screech »

Anyone know what happened with a qpr fan in the central?
There is a picture on twatter showing a bloke with no shoes or socks on??? Someone said he got them nicked off of him :eh:

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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by West_Ham1 »

Was our lads queit then? got this from a QPR mate
yesterday was the first time I've been upton park and it was quiet, your mob by the away end had a bit of banter but I dunno I just expected more from west ham.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by irving boleyn »

"Whether you agree with the plan or not is irrelevant, to say there is no "effective" tactical plan to score goals is nonsense"

OK I left out the word effective.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by durham city hammer »

I think it's harsh to pull just Cole up for neglecting his defensive duties yesterday, Noble, who had a cracking game overall, was guilty of doing just that on quite a few occasions, it's something that needs to be sharpened up throughout the team cos both Arsenal and Swansea will rip us a new one with their movement!
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by BenniBlanco »

Considering that we were frustrated with being a goal down, I thought the atmosphere was good. Heard nothing from them until they scored which was just one version of QPR by far greatest team b*llocks. The rest of the game was a resounding urge to get the equalizer and winning goal. Heard a lot worse at the Boleyn.
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Morocco Mole »

whitechapel hammer wrote: Is it really true though that Cole neglects his defensive responsibilities? Is that not a bit of a myth?
Yup, complete myth. Probably the hardest working winger/attacking midfielder of his generation. If you don't believe me check out how far he runs or how many tackles he makes. His first two touches back in a West Ham shirt were perfectly executed sliding tackles covering for young Potts in the first leg of the Man Utd game.

Mourinho didn't stop trusting him. He made him. In Mourinho's last full season at Chelseas Joe Cole was voted into the PFA team of the year. That means he was the best player in his position in the country.
the pink palermo wrote:Yes, I know, I have a tendency to criticise the genuinely gifted and talented more than lesser players .I judge them to a different standard which is of course unfair , but that's me and I can't change that I'm afraid.
I was going to tear into you Pinky but then you said the above which is fair enough (a teacher once said something similar to me) plus I like you. :)

Suffice to say pretty much everything you've said about Joe in the last couple of pages highlights what's been wrong with English football for the last 30 years....and I thought you were an old football romantic like me?

Where I do agree with you is that I don't really see the logic in playing your most creative player out wide and then giving them license to roam about. Why not just play them centrally to start with and field two proper wingers? It's that kind of fudged thinking that is half the problem - coaches trying to accommodate flair players rather then putting their faith in them.....
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Jon »

Travelled with a QPR fan who spoke of their fans's relief and surprise they stole a point.

As for the Nolan debate, there was bewilderment around me when Chamakh was the one to be pulled.

Frustrating that other options aren't tried in a game we dominated and had little to worry about defensively.

Vaz Te is yet to play in the middle for us.... Joe continues to be a victim of his own versatility and is now apparently a right winger...Jarvis was never swapped with Joe. Joe could have played in behind the striker....

So many possibilities, so little imagination showed by Sam. Shame. Opportunity missed. I'll take an in form Nolan anyday but I felt he should have been sacrificed a lot earlier yesterday.

Mr Allardyce...we can play well and win without Nolan. Please broaden your mind just a little. You might be surprised..
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Re: West Ham United v Queens Park Rangers - Match Thread

Post by Bobby Orangeboom »

irving boleyn wrote:"Whether you agree with the plan or not is irrelevant, to say there is no "effective" tactical plan to score goals is nonsense"

OK I left out the word effective.
Don't know about that, 9 shots on target and their GK getting MOTM everywhere I've read so far would suggest otherwise, as would scoring more goals than 4 other teams in the league especially when you coincide it with conceding only one more goal than the team that currently sits in 4th place in the league.

We are effective anyway, we're 12th in the league in our first season back in the top flight.

If we weren't effective we'd be much, much lower than that.
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