West Ham Utd 0-0 Aston Villa (02/11/13)

[Nesticles]

[quote="Sloop John B"] Like who though?? [quote]

I would have gone for Jelavic after Everton signed Kone and Lukaku.

[Sloop John B]

It's irrelevant how many/how few Bony and Wolfswinkel have scored at other clubs. Bony has hardly started a game, he might have been a revelation at our place, with our tactics/manager.

Yr right there of course... but I think it's a clear indication that just throwing cash at a striker who's scored in europe is not always an answer...And both of the above caused seveal *drools* and/or Anger-emoticons on here over the summer

Remy post court case... he's another id add to the watch list.

[Hambrosia Stu]

I'm not trying to bash Sam or Downing, just trying to be consistent with what I said at the time. As it stands I don't think I was wrong either, although I will be the first to hold my hands up at the end of the season if Downing goes on to tear it up.....

Ah, this again.....
On the one hand, I agree, that a striker should have been our one and over-riding priority. Had we got that sorted, maybe then we could have started to look around at other parts of the squad, ie Downing

But on the other, if you can't find a striker to sign that ticks the right boxes, should you just sign anyone? Also, just because one area needs strengthening, it doesn't mean you should ignore a chance to improve elsewhere in the squad/first team. I do rate Downing, and would see him as a first team starter, rather than simply a squad player. So given his price, and that he actually improves our first 11, I'd have to say I thought it a very good deal (in isolation)

So a tough one. Hard to slag what I see as being a pretty decent deal, yet if we knew we were only going to make one more signing, we should have ensured it was a striker. No denying we needed one far more than we needed Downing.

[taffhammer]

No idea but there was still a couple of weeks left in the window wasn't there? Signing Downing effectively meant that we had to spend the last two weeks waiting for Ba and Lukaku to make up their minds as there was no money left to do anything else (if you believe the party line).

No quality striker would sign for us when we have Andy Carroll and only play one up front, even with him injured in the summer any signing would have to think a couple of months ahead and they will be bench warming for the rest of the season.

[Aceface]

No-one else seems to have mentioned it so maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Rat was very poor offensively - defensively he was fine - on Saturday. Would love to have seen his pass completion stats at halftime - I'm sure at one stage he misplaced 5 consecutive passes, and he seemed to have taken up Collin's hoofing mantle a few times.

[Morocco Mole]

No quality striker would sign for us when we have Andy Carroll and only play one up front, even with him injured in the summer any signing would have to think a couple of months ahead and they will be bench warming for the rest of the season.

That's another story entirely. Don't get me started on that.....

[orbital]

No-one else seems to have mentioned it so maybe I'm wrong, but I thought Rat was very poor offensively - defensively he was fine - on Saturday. Would love to have seen his pass completion stats at halftime - I'm sure at one stage he misplaced 5 consecutive passes, and he seemed to have taken up Collin's hoofing mantle a few times.

Yep it was bloody frustrating, whilst Nobe's had a great game his dead ball's were awful as well.

[Turns to Stone]

No quality striker would sign for us when we have Andy Carroll and only play one up front, even with him injured in the summer any signing would have to think a couple of months ahead and they will be bench warming for the rest of the season.

That's another story entirely. Don't get me started on that.....

I'm not sure I buy this. This all comes from a question that DG was asked about Wilfried Bony when he responded that he wouldn't come and play second-fiddle to Carroll.

For my money though, there are two things about this. a) any striker worth their salt should back themselves to compete for the number one spot. It's not like Allardyce would want it pedalled around that any of his team were shoe-ins, regardless of whether or not it was true. For me it stunk of the board wanting a way of saying 'they tried' but the player didn't come for whatever reason.

The second thing is that we all know most players now are motivated far more by money than they are by playing time. If Gold and Sullivan had really wanted a striker, they could have got one. They chose to go with Carroll, plus Maiga and Vaz Te. It was a gamble, but I still buy the fact that Gold, Sullivan and Allardyce went out, spoke to players and agents and were actively recruiting a player who would be 'back-up' to Andy Carroll. I just don't believe it.

[Hambrosia Stu]

It doesn't happen often TtS, but I'd pretty much disagree with all your above post

I'm sure Gold, Sullivan and Allardyce didn't go around announcing that whoever came would be second choice to Carroll. But to anyone with an ounce of nous, that was blatantly going to be the case
And Sam has his favourites. Given that Carroll is our record signing, and how Sam's entire set up seems to be built around him, it must have been pretty obvious to anyone looking at us, that if Carroll was fit, he'd be playing...

Sure, you'd expect any decent player to have enough belief to think they could challenge for a starting spot, but that belief would be balanced by the reality of whatever situation that applied to. I think most players (who would be a realistic option for us) would have enough cop on to realise they wouldn't have an equal opportunity to impress the manager, and would realise that they could be doing exceptionally well in training, but still see Carroll get the nod for the starting line up

I also think you're over-egging the financial side of things. Sure, I agree, that for a lot of players the money is the first consideration. But i do think the actual opportunity available ranks pretty high as well. If a player had 2 or 3 offers, all roughly in the same bracket financially, I'd be surprised to see many choose a side where they may pick up a few quid more, but are unliklely to really play much, over a minor amount less in wages at a club where they'd have a realistsic chance of being first choice

[irving boleyn]

Wrong thread ! Dont miss my gem on the Striker thread !

[Turns to Stone]

Possibly, Stu.

But I think what strikes me most is that the board were never that interested in Bony. Yes, they looked at Ba, Lukaku, Quagliarelle. But let's be honest, what they really wanted was a player on loan, or someone who could fill in and play two roles (like Kalou for example).

I get that most sensible players would realise that Carroll was first choice, but I also think that there entire plan in the summer was to a) sign Carroll and b) bring in a loan player once they had sussed out who was surplus to requirements.

My guess is that Bony was only ever on the radar if the Carroll deal fell-through.

I think they looked at the market and decided that anyone that they could sign in July wouldn't have been a big enough upgrade on Maiga, Vaz Te or someone that they could have got for free in September. They then made the decision that the best way to go would be to see who the big boys were happy to get rid of and see who they could pick up.

The main point I'm making isn't really a general one though, it's about the fact that once we'd signed Carroll. I don't think the board were every really interested in going out and buying another big striker.

[Hambrosia Stu]

The main point I'm making isn't really a general one though, it's about the fact that once we'd signed Carroll. I don't think the board were every really interested in going out and buying another big striker.

That's how it seemed to me as well

I guess part of the problem with buying another striker would be that to get a player of similar quality to Carroll, you'd have to spend something like the same transfer fee. I doubt we'd have picked someone up who could do the job we wanted for about the same money we spent on Downing, for example.

So in those terms, given that it seems we didn't have that sort of money to spend, even if we wanted to spend on another striker, it makes some sort of sense to go into the loan market. But it's not a very pro-active way of doing business, as it's a very small market and you are sort of left with the leftovers, and are gambling that you'll be able to (a) pick one up, ie the player will choose to come to West Ham, and (b) will be able to pick one up who fits in with what you already have

[Turns to Stone]

So in those terms, given that it seems we didn't have that sort of money to spend, even if we wanted to spend on another striker, it makes some sort of sense to go into the loan market. But it's not a very pro-active way of doing business, as it's a very small market and you are sort of left with the leftovers, and are gambling that you'll be able to (a) pick one up, ie the player will choose to come to West Ham, and (b) will be able to pick one up who fits in with what you already have

I think the loan market was the best 'Plan A' they could come up with. The issue was that there then didn't seem to be a coherent Plan B.

Really, on the 2nd of September, they should have gone out and signed the best two fit strikers they could. They sort of did that with Petric and Cole, but the fact that neither of them were anywhere near the levels of fitness required kind of means that not only did Plan A fail, but they ballsed up Plan B.

I defend the board, and I think Allardyce has done a very good job, but the fact that we have 4/5 strikers at the club, and not one of them is deemed good enough or fit enough for the first team is not good.

Again though, much like many of the cock-ups with the marketing and public engagement, the frustration that I have is that generally I think they're dealing quite well with a really tough job and are taking us in the right direction, but are habitually and annoyingly shooting themselves in the foot.

Which let's be honest, is pretty much the dictionary definition of 'The West Ham way'!

[Puncher12]

I think Demba Ba on loan seems the most realistic idea at the moment from January.

Theres no way it'll get to January and we won't have signed anyone.

[warp]

I guess part of the problem with buying another striker would be that to get a player of similar quality to Carroll, you'd have to spend something like the same transfer fee. I doubt we'd have picked someone up who could do the job we wanted for about the same money we spent on Downing, for example.

kenwyne jones?

[Turns to Stone]

I guess part of the problem with buying another striker would be that to get a player of similar quality to Carroll, you'd have to spend something like the same transfer fee. I doubt we'd have picked someone up who could do the job we wanted for about the same money we spent on Downing, for example.

kenwyne jones?

You see, I think that Kenwyne Jones would have been a great signing, but in all liklihood, Stoke would have probably been looking at wanting the best part of £10m for him.

In hindsight that looks like a sensible deal, but had he been sitting on the bench right now with Jarvis struggling for form and Vaz Te injured we'd probably all have been saying 'Why didn't we sign Downing?'

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Turns to Stone]

I think Demba Ba on loan seems the most realistic idea at the moment from January.

Theres no way it'll get to January and we won't have signed anyone.

That was the idea in August and he turned us down. I see little that has changed since then.

[mumbles87]

That was the idea in August and he turned us down. I see little that has changed since then.

fact he hardly plays prob helps

[Turns to Stone]

That was the idea in August and he turned us down. I see little that has changed since then.

fact he hardly plays prob helps

Possibly. But I think the reason he didn't come then was because he wanted to go to a bigger club than us. I don't think we've grown that much since then.

[Hammer83]

You see, I think that Kenwyne Jones would have been a great signing, but in all liklihood, Stoke would have probably been looking at wanting the best part of £10m for him.

Why would they have wanted £10m for a lazy striker with a poor scoring record in the last year of his contract? when they only paid £8m for him only when Bruce was fed up with his inept inconsistent performances and wanted shot of him over two years ago.He wasn't even that good back then and has not improved since then.

Shane Long cost the baggies a similar fee and happens to be in the last year of his contract also I haven't checked scoring records for these two guys over the last few seasons but in terms of attitude and ability I would be picking Long all day over Jones.

But my personal preference was Remy on season loan £2m if we had done that we would be in the top 10 right now he's that good and the league that tight plays apart of course.