Liverpool 4-1 West Ham Utd (07/12/13)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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DaveWHU1964
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

eastendborn wrote:I'd much rather see a boring talentless player in the forward line whose ball skills are crap- but can hit the net every time he gets a chance on goal.
Scores every time he has a chance? But he's talentless with crap ball skills to help keep his price down? Sounds ideal. Who is he then?
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by Hampshire Hammer »

I find it hard to believe that people can't acknowledge that Maiga has improved, you may want to say that he isn't good enough but surely you can see he has improved? Several times had difficult balls pinged at him, which he chested down and controlled and won a good number of headers. All too often he was surrounded by Liverpool players and no chance of passing to one of his own players.

The Cole and Suarez chants were classic and fair play to the lone Liverpool fan who stood up when we sung "stand up if you've got a job" :lol:

We stayed up and didn't see many of our lot out, I think the accents were beginning to grate on my son. We had a good wonder round the docks and museum of Liverpool on Sunday, I can recommend them though obviously the museum is a bit too self congratulatory.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

Hampshire Hammer wrote:I find it hard to believe that people can't acknowledge that Maiga has improved, you may want to say that he isn't good enough but surely you can see he has improved?
He has improved in his general play, but whether that makes him good enough or not is another matter.

It's nearly Xmas. He hasn't scored a goal.

"Getting there" for a forward must mean scoring a goal occasionally.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by Hampshire Hammer »

^^^ I don't disagree, it is just irritating to see people slagging him off with no understanding that often the problem is not him but other people. When Carroll is on the pitch Nolan gambles on Carroll winning flick-ons, Nolan never gambles on Cole or Maiga winning them - which makes Maiga look bad when often the ball is at such a height and pace that all he can do is beat the defender and flick it on.

I had Maiga down to score his first goal against Liverpool, close but no cigar.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by bubbles1966 »

The bigger concern for me is that he has had two virtual tap ins in the Chelsea and Liverpool games which haven't gone in, and he also failed to make a run for a Jarvis cross that was a carbon copy of the one Carlton put away against Fulham, which was another tap in.

He's got the physical attributes certainly, but then - he always did. He's always been pretty good in the air.

The problem seems to be slowness of thought.

I'm not sure we can hang around waiting for him to learn or improve, not that we have much choice until January.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by DaveWHU1964 »

Hampshire Hammer wrote:I find it hard to believe that people can't acknowledge that Maiga has improved, you may want to say that he isn't good enough but surely you can see he has improved?
He has improved, but in truth it would have been virtually impossible not to considering the very low base line he started from. And sadly despite some improvement it hasn't been enough to make him an effective player. He still isn't good enough.

He is being asked to do a difficult job at the moment and there are aspects of his play that are neat and tidy. But he just doesn't seem to have a striker's instincts. We were told on here the other week that he would have scored the goal Carlton got against Fulham. I doubted that when it was said and whilst not conclusive proof we had a bit of evidence about that at the weekend. Jarvis put in a lovely ball across the face of goal at nil nil. Maiga hung back- it doesn't seem to be in him to attack the post.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by wes »

Can't blame Maiga for that one. Maiga took a gamble and stayed on the edge of 5-yard box anticipating Jarvis' pass there (similar to the one Jarvis made to J Cole against Cardiff) which was quite smart given that Sakho and Mignolet were already on/near the goal line.

That header would have gone in should there be any other keeper in the goal this weekend. Unlucky to hit the post against Fulham, unlucky to have a good shot saved by Stekelenburg.

But it would have been mad to sell him (or better to say give him away) in January now he's worthless. There is a striker somewhere and we have a packed schedule.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by bobcar »

bubbles1966 wrote:The bigger concern for me is that he has had two virtual tap ins in the Chelsea and Liverpool games which haven't gone in, and he also failed to make a run for a Jarvis cross that was a carbon copy of the one Carlton put away against Fulham, which was another tap in.
That's the most depressing thing, I criticize him far more for not being on the end of that than if he had been there and somehow knocked it over the top. All strikers miss goals and have lean spells but but the good ones keep getting in the position to miss them.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by bobcar »

wes wrote:Can't blame Maiga for that one. Maiga took a gamble and stayed on the edge of 5-yard box anticipating Jarvis' pass there (similar to the one Jarvis made to J Cole against Cardiff) which was quite smart given that Sakho and Mignolet were already on/near the goal line.
It wasn't smart at all, where do you think Lineker would have been?

I would say though at the moment he is leading the line better than he was and we have few alternatives, certainly until/if Carlton regains full fitness. Maybe him hanging back and not anticipating is just a lack of confidence and a spark will suddenly happen?
Last edited by bobcar on Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by Hampshire Hammer »

bubbles1966 wrote: The problem seems to be slowness of thought.
TBF that was a huge part of the difference between us and Liverpool, they were quicker in thought and deed.

DaveWHU1964 wrote: But he just doesn't seem to have a striker's instincts. We were told on here the other week that he would have scored the goal Carlton got against Fulham. I doubted that when it was said and whilst not conclusive proof we had a bit of evidence about that at the weekend. Jarvis put in a lovely ball across the face of goal at nil nil. Maiga hung back- it doesn't seem to be in him to attack the post.
I said at the time that I wanted to see a couple of incidents like the Jarvis cross again, as it looked like Maiga should have been attacking it. As you say, he doesn't look like a striker and I'm not sure we have the role in the team that he fits - sort of attacking player, but not quite a striker. He can beat people, he can take up good positions, he can put in a decent cross, he has scored a couple of good goals (not this season though). If he got a couple of goals would he be gambling more, your guess is as good as mine. Basically he is being asked to play a role that he doesn't seem to be quite right for and giving it a fair go - but not good enough. I'm almost wondering if he is yet another "second striker", without the confidence to lead the line.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by wes »

All I'm saying Andy won't score a goal either should he get the same support from midfielders than Maiga does. Download last year's Fulham game and this year's one. Check Nolan's positionining in each game. Nolan doesn't trust Maiga, doesn't bother to win his knock downs.

We can field two completely differently minded teams - one is route 1 team with Andy and Nolan with Downing and Jarvis on the flanks putting in crosses and the second one is much more technical Vaz Te and J Cole on the flanks with Morrison and Maiga in the middle. But don't mix these two up because it's gonna go wrong. It has.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by w6hammer »

I`ve seen enough of Maiga to come to the conclusion he is a poor striker devoid of confidence.I would not be happy if he was our striker in the championship next season yet alone the prem this one, :thdn:
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by wes »

You don't get the same ratio in French league than Didier Drogba if you don't have these instincts. Something else is wrong with the whole Maiga fiasco.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by Suicyde »

wes wrote:We can field two completely differently minded teams - one is route 1 team with Andy and Nolan with Downing and Jarvis on the flanks putting in crosses and the second one is much more technical Vaz Te and J Cole on the flanks with Morrison and Maiga in the middle. But don't mix these two up because it's gonna go wrong. It has.
Surely Big Sam realises this too? Or are we being too simplistic?
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Re: Predictions for when we will win at Anfield

Post by Jumby »

61dicksey wrote:Talking of the blue half of merseyside , i sometimes eo wonder where we go wrong Everton a similar size club to us with arguably maybe similar investment , selling to buy or survive .
Kenwright is no billionarre but they are so much more stable and have a good premier league record although not pushing for champs league never ever in danger.
what do West ham do so differently?
Good point, but look at the people who have been ruining, sorry, running our club, over the years. I know the Daves have done alot for us, and I'm grateful for it, but now, when things are getting very real, they're coming slightly unstuck, questions are being asked and they're struggling to find answers.
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Re: Liverpool vs West Ham: Match Thread

Post by eastendborn »

DaveWHU1964 wrote: Scores every time he has a chance? But he's talentless with crap ball skills to help keep his price down? Sounds ideal. Who is he then?
Dunno mate- he could be Joe Bloggs- so long as he can hit the back of the net and stop us going down again. But that mightn't be so bad- i thought the championship was quite good- regular wins and not so many high paid foreign prima-donnas
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