West Ham Utd 3-1 Southampton (22/02/14)

[mushy]

It reminds me of Leicester fans, many years ago, claiming that they were a better side than Liverpool because they had done the double over them. But err.. Liverpool won the league while Leicester were relegated !

Did they outplay them as well Bob?

[carnage]

If they beat them they outplayed them .

[BondsoBob]

Do you know what Mushy ? It was a long time ago, some time in the early 80's but I do believe Leicester did play really well in both games. If I recall rightly 2-1 at Filbert Street and 1-0 at Anfield.

[Irrons]

Funny, for a one-dimensional long ball team we had to wait till February to score our first headed goal.

It wasn't through lack of trying though was it...we were (still are?) just generally poor at set-plays, corners, crossing and heading considering the amount we have. I think its partly due to the absence of Carroll and the fact that Cole isn't the same type of player (not a target man imo), partly Noble taking most of our corners and mostly Matt Jarvis' floaty or wayward crosses.

Seeing that stat was one of the biggest surprises for me considering we have Allardyce in charge - he has a reputation for being quite good at that and I thought we pretty effective at it in the championship.

[SDKFZ 222]

Whatever the rights, wrongs and ifs and buts of whether their style of football is better than ours, we have taken 4 points from them both this season and last and also comprehensively beaten them, score-wise, two seasons running at our place. Because of the way they constantly whinge about us I'm now inclined to lump them in with Reading & Blackpool fans, who were just as arrogant when we used to play them.

with regard to their style of play, lots of tippy tippy, sideways, backwards and diagonal passes in front of their own area and around the centre circle does not make for effective or watchable football, in my humble opinion. Even during our halcyon days of the greenwood and Lyall eras we never saw this style being played, the only time I saw this at our place was during the second and third season of Zola's tenure, and where did that get us?

[WatfordHammer82]

Are we not a better team than Sp*rs then?

Please tell me its not true.

[rare as rockinghorse shat]

Rars, you're one of the best posters on this site so you of all people can see there is a nuance to this.

Firstly, thanks for the kind words.

What I said was less of a damning of those that are critical of the style, I'm not one of those that are critical of those that desire a bit more than just 3 points. Far from it.
Just more of a "such a mental situation, that we're here with all sorts of reservations about winning 4 on the bounce... ha ha ha" sort of thing.

Bit like there's this bird who I fancy in work. I thought she was about 25. She's 18.
Then I thought "That's 15 years difference... f*cking hell, that's like a whole entire person difference... that's mental... ha ha ha"

Sort of thing that woulda been nodded to and smirked at in the pub, like.

[mushy]

Firstly, thanks for the kind words.
.

rars,
I assumed like everyone else he was taking the p*ss.

[Albie Beck]

So who is the better team if say side A beats side B 4-0, home and away, but side B finish higher in the league?

The team who finishes higher in the League.

What if A has a mid-season run where injuries and suspensions mean that results take a hit, but at other times, as well as doubling B, their overall results are clearly better than B? It can't surely be just down to league position when there are external factors like that?

Certainly not if you are only asking the simple question "Who is the better team?"

[stevenmj]

Surely if its about league position only on current form, (a mini league), we are the better side?

[WHUJohn]

rars,
I assumed like everyone else he was taking the p*ss.

Someone obsessed and engrossed in their own self importance wouldn't see it that way though.

[64misser]

I think the problem is with the word "better". Better is a subjective term - better for you? better for me? better for Sam?

You cannot disagree that the team that the team that wins is the more _successful_. And the team that is higher in the league is also more successful.

I think "outplayed" is an objective term - it means whoever played the game with the most successful outcome - i.e. us. To say that the winning team was outplayed is an oxymoron IMHO.

[woodford]

after 40+ years of walking out if Upton park wondering how the hell we lost, and watching games where we dominated teams but lost to a sucker punch goal, I really couldn't care a toss if some people think Southampton are better and some people don't.

In the bigger picture, its nice that our discussions are now about how we win rather than how we lose

FWIW, people thinking we've won in an incorrect way , or that we've lost gloriously because we didn't put the ball in the net more than the opposition, or that 90 minutes can sum up a team, has more to do with what side of bed they got out of, rather than fact. I waiver between the extremes if im honest, as do most football fans

[giantsteps]

Let's put it into context:

We put three past them (one of those being an overhead kick), and won by two clear goals

They hardly "outplayed" us did they. We were the better team on the day

[Estuary]

And Southampton did.

Don't agree with that, you can have plenty of the ball, but its what you do with that that matters. Norwich hurt us, and had Hopper had his shooting boots on we would have lost by three or four, they effectively started as they left off in the second half of the game at Carrow Rd, and handed our midfield and defence their arses for fun. Southampton may have squeaked a couple of efforts, the header onto the post, and Lallana got a poor shot off late in the second half, but they never had control of the game in the way Norwich did, our midfield and defence was always in touch and not over run, our forward and wide guys had plenty of ball, in fact it took a crass error from Tomkins and a set piece to get them a goal.
Southampton didn't put Adrian under pressure in the way Norwich did. I don't recall him having to make save after save, or seeing one of the Southampton lads clear through without a defender within challenging distance.
I think Sam gave them space and encouraged them to come on to us, they push up, we win the ball, and Nolan makes the pass of the game behind a defence with a high line, and Jarvis scores. We used the same method for the third, they are trying to mount an attack and Mark Noble does his job, and Downing puts in a great cross, Carlton does his job, and Nolan does his.
Southampton have one way of playing, but only two or three players good enough to really capitalise on that, and on the day our players were better at their jobs than the Saints players were at theirs.
I don't think we were outplayed by Southampton as that suggests we had little or no control, which I think is wrong, we were comprehensively done by Norwich, no question but I am convinced that Sam has it over Pochettino.
But f*** it, you get no points for style in this game, that's for ice skating dancing, and we need points more than we need admirers.

[Iron-worx]

I think the problem is with the word "better". Better is a subjective term - better for you? better for me? better for Sam?

You cannot disagree that the team that the team that wins is the more _successful_. And the team that is higher in the league is also more successful.

I think "outplayed" is an objective term - it means whoever played the game with the most successful outcome - i.e. us. To say that the winning team was outplayed is an oxymoron IMHO.

They played the ball about in midfield and it looked slick, but only because we were content to let them do it.

We didn't try to stop them playing the ball about in midfield we tried to and did stop them from penetrating.

Any premiership team can look slick passing the ball about in midfield if it isn't the opposing teams game plan to stop them doing it, it's the easiest thing on Earth, it doesn't take a good team to do things that they're not being stopped from doing.

[rare as rockinghorse shat]

rars,
I assumed like everyone else he was taking the p*ss.

Someone obsessed and engrossed in their own self importance wouldn't see it that way though.

Suck my throbbing womb-buster you pair of nitwits.

[saludo de carlitos]

Met a few Pompey fans recently, different level and much more knowledgeable than Saints fans.

[wizzo_66]

Met a few Pompey fans recently, different level and much more knowledgeable than Saints fans.

Father in law is a Pompey ST holder. Top bloke and knows so much about football across the board.

[West Ham Matt]

You still going to try and get your nuts in RARS, more importantly.