FAC4: Bristol City 0-1 West Ham Utd (25/01/15)

[Hockley Hammer]

It's one thing knowing your best X1, it's another thing having them all available, fit and in form.

It seemed our manager knew that a professional performance would be enough and he was proved right.

I had to watch the two halves hours apart yesterday, and I was pleased that we actually performed better in the second half and the subs were spot on for the second game running.

What I have noticed this weekend is that the PL teams can't rely on these lower league teams to run out of steam towards the end of the game anymore. They were at us for 90 minutes, and we might not have held out had we not played a much different game in the second half. We coped with the best they had to offer and at least started passing the ball better in the second half.

It's noticeable that not one Pl team blew away a team from a lower league over the weekend.

Maybe against one of the big boys coming up we can revert to a more open style because we have nothing to lose. Also we are more likely to be given some room to play, which helps.

[giantsteps]

Agree with MikeNewell'sOldBoys.

Couldn't for the life of me understand why Downing was out on the wing again, for the full 90 mins too. I'm not sure why Allardyce persists to play him there in certain games.

Song was poor in the fist half too, so many misplaced passes.

The frustrating thing is we have found a winning formation this season but seldom play it. When it is deployed we play a lot better.

Sakho took his header well btw. The man's a beast. Best striker we've had in ages imho.

A hard-fought win. But we got over the line.

[w4hammer]

throroughly enjoyable day out... had a few in town then out in the cottage pub watching life go by one the water- pleasant place Bristol is. row 4 seats in the corner were about the worst in the ground but thats what these games are all about. Why do clubs thing playing awful tinny music at uber decibel levels before the game somehow creates an " atmosphere" -its the opposite- neither side sang a song until they'd switched it off.

Though we sang pretty well but a bit quite second half - bristol were everything i thought theyd be but a bit better-very lucky not to conceded first half- we had no midfield shape or any kind of plan...just as bad as hull the week before * peers at nolan & noble and rolls eyes *

Second half i never felt we were in danger and it was just a matter of time...cracking work from carroll and sakho and on we go.

We got the 5 pm train , jibbed first class and home no probs at all- what were the train problems you referred too?

[Hammers Dad]

I still haven't seen us win on the telly. Got so frustrated with it all that when Nolan got booked, I went out and did the washing up which took until the final whistle. Just 5 minutes after I walked out, we score and end up winning.

[bullyhammer]

[quot"Markt85"]

Fair enough. Not many Hammers fans didn't care about Bradford beating Chelsea from 2-0 down and Spurs getting knocked out. I was jumping round the living room.quot]

Good for you jumping around the living room.

I'm nearly 60, and I was jumping around at Saturday's results... probably less athletically though!

[Knighter10WHU]

Got the 10:03am up and it was full of Bath egg-chaser fans, strange lot, but in fairness it was a much ,more civilised journey than the 5:00pm train back. Drank in the Knight's Templar, which is probably the nicest Wetherspoons I've ever been in bar Hamilton Hall.

Ground was a dump, but that is what it is all about. The stewards were good allowing me to go into the ground and then pass my spare ticket to a mate outside the ground through the fire exit gate. Atmosphere was poor from both sides all game except for when we went in front. I was really dissapointed with Song's attitude, the way all of the other players came running out for the second half and he walked out without a care in the world. Anyway, on to the next round and hope for an easy home draw.

[carnage]

By having to go to plan B every 2nd half ?

Why doesn't he start with plan B for a change....

Because we are not losing/winning games.

What if he starts with plan B and it goes tits up and we find ourselves 3 down? You can't go back to plan A if that happens.

We definately play better with plan B but using plan A for the first half(which is more solid, especially physically) might be the reason why plan B is more effective later in the game. You have to earn the right to play, especially away from home.

There may be faults with Plan A, but we don't know what faults might occur with plan B if we start with it, and because we are a few points off Champions League and in the 5th round I think he is doing a good job. We could have a few more points if things were done differently, but so could every team in the League. No manager gets it right every time.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Because we are not losing/winning games.

What if he starts with plan B and it goes tits up and we find ourselves 3 down? You can't go back to plan A if that happens.

We definately play better with plan B but using plan A for the first half(which is more solid, especially physically) might be the reason why plan B is more effective later in the game. You have to earn the right to play, especially away from home.

in the main, it was the form earlier in the season that has got us to where we are in the league. To me, there has been a noticeable change in the way we play since about mid December. Our form since then has been fairly patchy, we haven't lost many, but neither have we one many (two games at home against relegation threatened teams - Leicester, hull and a 3rd tier team in the cup)

My thought on it is when Allardyce didn't have available what is in his mind his full strength team, he was prepared to go a bit more gung-ho, as there was a little less pressure on him, esp after the fallout from the Southampton game. He didn't really know how the new players ie Valencia and Sakho would perform together, or if Downing playing in the hole would work so was prepared to just let them get on with it and really attack. He could always fall back on the excuse that he was missing key players. When it did work, he let it ride for the majority of the early season.

However, since Carroll and Nolan have come back (and I am not blaming them individually, as both have put in some decent individual performances), it seems he prefers to be more cautious again - reverting to the formations, style and overall mentality he is more comfortable with i.e keep it solid to start with (a variation on the 4-5-1) and then change it if not working.

To me, and probably to a fair few others, the plan earlier in the season of taking the game to the opposition from the off, and making them earn the right to play against us (not the other way round), is much more entertaining, and certainly no less successful (if results are anything to go by)

And just to clarify, i am not talking about the game yesterday as much as recent league games, as I know an away game in the cup against good lower division opposition is a different kettle of fish entirely

[Markt85]

Couldn't for the life of me understand why Downing was out on the wing again, for the full 90 mins too. I'm not sure why Allardyce persists to play him there in certain games.

Has anyone got one of those heat map thingy's ...

i saw him play pretty much everywhere, at times down both wings (where he is a excellent crosser of the ball) and i saw him plenty of times in the middle behind the front men. i thought he was given a free reign to be honest.

[NorthBankAlliance]

Atmosphere was poor from both sides all game except for when we went in front.

Was really flat weren't it, in danger of becoming a 'sing when you're winning' support...

[Danny's Dyer Acting]

Has anyone got one of those heat map thingy's ...

i saw him play pretty much everywhere, at times down both wings (where he is a excellent crosser of the ball) and i saw him plenty of times in the middle behind the front men. i thought he was given a free reign to be honest.

Ask and ye shall receive.....

Vs. Bristol City....


And for comparison.....

Vs. Burnley....


Vs. Man City


Only significant difference I can see across those 3 games is the amount we got him the ball.

[Markt85]

Cheers Danny

edited by a moderator

[k-r-c]

Because we are not losing/winning games.

What if he starts with plan B and it goes tits up and we find ourselves 3 down? You can't go back to plan A if that happens.

We definately play better with plan B but using plan A for the first half(which is more solid, especially physically) might be the reason why plan B is more effective later in the game. You have to earn the right to play, especially away from home.

There may be faults with Plan A, but we don't know what faults might occur with plan B if we start with it, and because we are a few points off Champions League and in the 5th round I think he is doing a good job. We could have a few more points if things were done differently, but so could every team in the League. No manager gets it right every time.

I can see where you are coming from however I think we can all agree that the last two games we have been very lucky not to be a couple of goals down by half time.

Something does need to be done as we are not going to keep getting away with these sloppy 1st halves.

[WHUJohn]

Has anyone got one of those heat map thingy's ...

i saw him play pretty much everywhere, at times down both wings (where he is a excellent crosser of the ball) and i saw him plenty of times in the middle behind the front men. i thought he was given a free reign to be honest.

It's Mark's reality against giantsteps's perception.

You'll have to find this for the actual picture as I don't know how to add it on here, but here it is.

@WHU_Stats: #WHUFC Lots of people on twitter/FB/KUMB knocking SA for playing SD solely on the wing yesterday, when he didn't - http://t.co/7UcV1BpPl7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit : Just seen Danny done it and I didn't see it, sorry.

[giantsteps]

Yes I agree about Downing yesterday to an extent. My mate said to me, "why is he playing on the right wing?" and then a couple of minutes later he was out on the left.

I can only recall one time of note he drifted inside and had a shot though, but the heat map doesn't lie does it.

I don't think at any time he was in the hole pulling the strings like he has done in previous games, and imho, when he's at his best.

It's amazing though that we're now thinking he's playing out of postion if he's not in the hole when for the last 12 seasons (or something) he's been playing as a winger. He really is like a new player in this diamond formation when it's used.

[Hockley Hammer]

in the main, it was the form earlier in the season that has got us to where we are in the league. To me, there has been a noticeable change in the way we play since about mid December.

My thought on it is when Allardyce didn't have available what is in his mind his full strength team, he was prepared to go a bit more gung-ho, as there was a little less pressure on him, esp after the fallout from the Southampton game. He didn't really know how the new players ie Valencia and Sakho would perform together, or if Downing playing in the hole would work so was prepared to just let them get on with it and really attack. He could always fall back on the excuse that he was missing key players. When it did work, he let it ride for the majority of the early season.

But the problem is the changes weren't necessarily made out of choice. Sakho came back from the International break injured and we don't actually know if he has been 100% fit since. Song has had an injury/illness and the ANC issue. Noble has been injured for longer than you would expect. Then Kouyate disappears to the ANC.

When was the last time that the players in the period you were talking about were all fit and available, and how often has this been the case since mid-December. I think hardly at all. .

And with regards to Downing, I'm sure any decent PL manager has seen the effect he was having in his central role and would try to stop his influence in the game, To me the fact he can still be useful out wide in a game is a bonus.

As soon as we started winning games, I'm sure teams looked at ways of stopping us playing a lot more than they used to.

[hawkins_hammer]

He definitely started SD on the wing with Valencia on the other side before reverting to the diamond at about 25 minutes as we were lucky for the second game in a row not to be two-nil down. why we started that way again is beyond me.

[w4hammer]

New postby NorthBankAlliance on Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:11 am

Knighter10WHU wrote:
Atmosphere was poor from both sides all game except for when we went in front.


Was really flat weren't it, in danger of becoming a 'sing when you're winning' support...

we are in danger of moaning about ****ing everything club! Yesterday half of the 1100 was never-sing, bobble hat wearing trainspotters- stuck in a shitty corner of shitty ground with rubbish acoustics- overall we sang well, albeit engrossed in the second half as it unfolded

[hammerleroy]

Tin hat on here but Song played as he didn't give a toss. Barcelona to Bristol City and all that. Let's hope Anfield will stir him to actually look interested. Just giving my slant on it!!!

[kthammer]

It was a weird ground (it will be great when finished). That plus the fact that the game was rather dull for periods meant that there were long spells when it was eerily quiet. My favourite moment was when a couple (literally) of City fans tried to break the silence by singing 'your support is f*cking sh*t' but no-one joined in which kind of undermined their point.