FAC4: Bristol City 0-1 West Ham Utd (25/01/15)

[James P]

I'm not sure about all this "we were lucky to not be a couple down" talk.

Bristol City had some decent attacking possession but not a lot we didn't handle. We headed a couple off the line but we were set up to do so. Noble should be heading efforts like that away, that's why he's there. I'm still irritated he didn't keep Swansea's goal out the other week. I see no reason why we should consider ourselves lucky to go in at half time 0-0.

For me Downing was set up at the point of the diamond. He wasn't helped by the midfield and Song in particular losing the ball so much. He will always end up in wide positions too as is the nature of the role.

[giantsteps]

He definitely started SD on the wing with Valencia on the other side before reverting to the diamond at about 25 minutes as we were lucky for the second game in a row not to be two-nil down. why we started that way again is beyond me.

I think it's too accommodate Carroll and get balls on his head.

The thing is when we do press teams early doors and go a goal up we have a tendency to sit back and not go for a second, which can inevitably be suicidal as we know.

Allardyce tends to start a static formation these days and then press (say in the 2nd half). The good thing is though we're mixing it up a bit in matches.

We defintely need to be careful of not becoming a 'play well in one half' team though.

[dplus91]

For me Downing was set up at the point of the diamond. He wasn't helped by the midfield and Song in particular losing the ball so much. He will always end up in wide positions too as is the nature of the role.

I agree - he wants the ball & if it's congested in the middle, he drifts out wide to get in some space. They were pressing us really well for most of the match. Besides if he's out on the right, it enables him to cut inside onto his left foot. I think he's scored 3 goals doing that this season.

[Goldcoast Hammer]

Match didn't start till midnight here, after 25 mins I was ready to give in, glad I didn't,wasn't pretty but result that counts.Midfield still worries me but though Reid played well and once Sachs was on we look so more of a threat.
Let's hope for a nice home draw .

[Longneck'd Iron]

It was a weird ground (it will be great when finished). That plus the fact that the game was rather dull for periods meant that there were long spells when it was eerily quiet. My favourite moment was when a couple (literally) of City fans tried to break the silence by singing 'your support is f*cking sh*t' but no-one joined in which kind of undermined their point.

The City fan making out to be the Lino raised a momentary smile

[Billydinho]

I'm not sure about all this "we were lucky to not be a couple down" talk.

Bristol City had some decent attacking possession but not a lot we didn't handle. We headed a couple off the line but we were set up to do so. Noble should be heading efforts like that away, that's why he's there. I'm still irritated he didn't keep Swansea's goal out the other week. I see no reason why we should consider ourselves lucky to go in at half time 0-0.

For me Downing was set up at the point of the diamond. He wasn't helped by the midfield and Song in particular losing the ball so much. He will always end up in wide positions too as is the nature of the role.

James,you're usually a voice of reason and fact amongst madness but saying we weren't lucky that we had two cleared off the line because we set up like that is one of your more ridiculous statements.

You put a man on the line as last resort cover, if it gets that far, the man clears it (fine) but it is still a very fine line and dangerous game to be playing to rely on that player. Anything can happen and the ball could pretty much go anywhere.

Look at Carroll's one, a shorter player with less than outstanding heading capabilities wouldn't have got that away. That's exactly what Swansea would have wanted Leon Britton to have done in our home game with them earlier this season, except he didn't and we won 2-0.

[thejackhammer]

Billy you're usually the voice of reason but this time you're wrong. We won 3-1.

[Kialos]

Carroll's clearance was more central goal line area behind Adrian than being on the post. I doubt very much that was something planned for.

West Ham started getting into the game towards the end of the first half but to suggest that prior to that we were comfortable is not a view many who saw the game will subscribe to I suspect. Bristol City could very easily have been a goal up at the break.

[southbrishammer]

It was a weird ground (it will be great when finished). That plus the fact that the game was rather dull for periods meant that there were long spells when it was eerily quiet. My favourite moment was when a couple (literally) of City fans tried to break the silence by singing 'your support is f*cking sh*t' but no-one joined in which kind of undermined their point.

Small but abusive child sat next to me in the home section of the Atyeo, a couple of minutes before our goal: "You can't even beat a f*cking Championship team!". Short pause, discussion with older sister then: "You can't even beat a f*cking League One team!"

[Billydinho]

Billy you're usually the voice of reason but this time you're wrong. We won 3-1.

Ha whoops! Year before was 2-0. Premise still remains!

[Sloop John B]

Couldn't for the life of me understand why Downing was out on the wing again, for the full 90 mins too. I'm not sure why Allardyce persists to play him there in certain games.

i saw him play pretty much everywhere, at times down both wings (where he is a excellent crosser of the ball) and i saw him plenty of times in the middle behind the front men. i thought he was given a free reign to be honest.

Yes I agree about Downing yesterday to an extent. My mate said to me, "why is he playing on the right wing?" and then a couple of minutes later he was out on the left.

HA ha make your mind up Giantsteps

[Turns to Stone]

We're not going to control whole games. We never have and never will. Every game of football that is ever played professionally will have periods when each side is in top and each side creates chances.

All you can do is set yourself up best as possible to not concede. We did that. Too corners that were one by players two or three inches than our tallest player and were cleared off the line is pretty much all they created all game.

We went to frustrate them, to contain them and to spring with pace in the second half. It worked. And after watching the games from the weekend, I actually think that not going toe to toe with them in the first half served as well. We didn't make it into a classic cup tie and we played sensibly like an away side.

I do think that we're under performing at the moment. But I thin pj that's to do with either having important players out or our best players not performing.

Yesterday, Song was in his best position, he was very poor. Noble played in a position that he has often played this year when Song plays (and he was poor). Valencia was very poor and I actually thought Downing looked a little out of sorta (although starved of the ball). Without Kouyate and Sakho that's actually our best players from the start of the season who are either out of form or out of the country.

I do think a little is down to too much tinkering with the side over the Christmas period. But the main thing is that I think our players aren't quite good enough to maintain their excellent form. The fact that we're getting through games and winning is positive. I think some are expecting a little too much from a side who was very average last year and who have probably flattered a little to deceive in the first half of the season.

I thoroughly expect Kouyate to come strait back into the side when he's back though and I think he'll provide something in midfield we've been missing. It will only matter though if Noble and Song can find the form that they were showing early on. We look like we need a break though to me.

[Billydinho]

We're not going to control whole games. We never have and never will. Every game of football that is ever played professionally will have periods when each side is in top and each side creates chances.

All you can do is set yourself up best as possible to not concede. We did that. Too corners that were one by players two or three inches than our tallest player and were cleared off the line is pretty much all they created all game.

I don't doubt any of this, I assume it was aimed at my rebuttal to James' point. I'm saying that you can't class two off the line clearances as part of your set up as structure. It's a f*cking risky game to be playing if they are.

[prophet:marginal]

I'd definitely say that it was more a case of good fortune than any kind of dominant play that kept us level until half-time. The defence needed to be on their toes because the midfield etc kept giving the ball away in dangerous areas.

I actually thought that, as I watched Carroll clear the ball, the ref would definitely blow for a penalty. At that moment, it did look like his arm helped the ball over the bar. Perhaps we were lucky there too.

[James P]

You put a guy on a post at a corner to clear goal bound efforts. Why else is he there? It's not "lucky" if he performs the very function you've put him there to do. Ideally you want to clear the danger before he's called upon, but he's still part of the defensive structure employed to protect the goal. The Carroll incident is somewhat different and I suppose at a push you could call it lucky but he was there to defend and used his wit and ability to do so.

The wider point though is that I don't feel we were lucky not to be a few goals down. We gave up far too much possession and allowed far too much space in the final third but Bristol City didn't turn that into a flurry of chances. We dealt with everything they offered.

[Billydinho]

You put a guy on a post at a corner to clear goal bound efforts. Why else is he there? It's not "lucky" if he performs the very function you've put him there to do. Ideally you want to clear the danger before he's called upon, but he's still part of the defensive structure employed to protect the goal. The Carroll incident is somewhat different and I suppose at a push you could call it lucky but he was there to defend and used his wit and ability to do so.

The wider point though is that I don't feel we were lucky not to be a few goals down. We gave up far too much possession and allowed far too much space in the final third but Bristol City didn't turn that into a flurry of chances. We dealt with everything they offered.

That you do but, as I've said, the ball can go anywhere. How many sliced or mishit clearances or headers do you see from a man on the post? It's not something you can say "I'm sure he'll get that away". There's an element of good fortune in it as you're reading an atttacker's header/shot in a split second and you have to get a part of your body there to get enough behind it from going in and it not to hit a hand at any time.

I don't disagree that we were good value for the win in the end and were quite in control for the majority of the game but they made us sweat and we were lucky not to concede.

It kind of harks back to when people used to go n about our clean sheets last year and put it down to good defending and discipline. When, in hindsight, we were unbelievably fortunate not to concede in many of those games. Chelsea away, prime example.

[LincolnshireHammer]

Couldn't for the life of me understand why Downing was out on the wing again, for the full 90 mins too. I'm not sure why Allardyce persists to play him there in certain games.

This is in no way a dig at Allardyce, or our Captain.

But do you think it might be something to do with Kevin Nolan playing in that position?

[Up the Junction]

The opposition view: Bristol City
http://www.kumb.com/story.php?id=128181

[Turns to Stone]

I tHonk the point I'm making is just that in a cup competition, a side like Bristol City are always going to come flying out of the blocks and the job is to just stop them creating as much as you can. I understand that we blocked two on the line, but aside from stopping corners all you can do is defend set-pieces well, which we did. I actually thought the best chance of the half fell to Carroll just before half-time when he couldn't get around his marker but should have been more aware of the cross.

They had more possession in the first half, we passed badly in midfield but I don't feel our defence ever looked in trouble (in the way it did against Hull).

As I've said, overall in a weekend of upsets I think we looked very solid and as the game wore on I only really saw one winner.

Something I've said many times over the years about sides against us.

It wasn't a classic performance, but I'd rather we saved those for the later rounds anyway. A professional performance where we didn't give them too much to get excited about or more importantly to get the crowd excited.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that despite them having more of the ball I they didn't use it well enough and they didn't stretch us enough.

Someone on there forum said 'I couldn't tell if Bristol City were good and West Ham were terrible or whether West Ham just kept them at arms length and whilst allowing them lots of ball never really let them do anything with it.'

After watching the game again this morning, I think we it was a really professional performance with not that many of our players really getting out of third gear.

[Up the Junction]

Interesting looking back at the weekend's Cup results featuring teams from the Prem against lower league opposition:

Cambridge (L2) 0-0 Man Utd (PL)
Blackburn (Ch) 3-1 Swansea (PL)
Birmingham (Ch) 1-2 West Brom (PL)
Chelsea (PL) 2-4 Bradford (Ch)
Man City (PL) 0-2 Middlesbrough (Ch)
Sunderland (PL) 0-0 Fulham (Ch)
Liverpool (PL) 0-0 Bolton (Ch)
Bristol City (L1) 0-1 West Ham Utd (PL)
Aston Villa (PL) 2-1 Bournemouth (Ch)
Brighton (Ch) 2-3 Arsenal (PL)

Ten games there, just four wins for PL teams - and not one by more than a single goal.