West Ham Utd 3-0 Hull City (18/01/15)

[Crouchend_Hammer]

3-0 win yesterday, good goals, a good second half , and , I thought, a Manager who in his press conference that criticised his players for a poor first half without caning them a la Bruce .

Interestingly, he didn't take any responsibility for getting it wrong himself in the first half though did he? Just a bit of humility every now and again wouldn't go amiss. I find it hard to give credit to anyone (in all walks of life) who has made changes for the better, if they are unable to admit they made a mistake in the first place

[vind]

Yes we had a bad first half, but if you can't take joy at winning 3-0 and being in the top half then I am not sure what else will make you happy.

[Romford]

I don't post on here very often, but I read just about every day and as others have said this is without a doubt the best WHU site around.

I have no axes to grind so for what its worth here is my twopenerth

Romford, having read through this thread I really cant see where people are being disrespectful to you. They are just disagreeing with you.

You seem to crave respect, yet are not so good at showing it yourself to others.

You tend to disagree with someone, it becomes a row and before long you are threatening bans all round.

I and I think nearly everyone who uses this site respects the work you do on here. Maybe you should just chill out a bit & not respond to every post that annoys you

I don't crave respect at all...i just usually recieve it. I have seen many people talk down to Mods...and this is something that just would not have happened 5 years ago.

I have never ever banned anyone....and have only started threatening people in the last few days due to their rude posting stance.

I obviously am not a popular person to many on here due to my views on going to games and also get a hard ride from many who i have had run-ins before and cannot just get on with it.

None of this should matter....

People should post without talking down to people....and just act how they would in real life, down the pub.

Do they ?

We both know the answer to that....

Until they do...i will now be on their case

[Hammers Dad]

Wow.
Just....Wow.
There are some seriously childish posts in this thread, from both sides of the camp.

Anyway....

First half was absolute sh*te. The passing was awful, the teamwork was awful, the whole atmosphere was bloody awful. It looked like they had never played together before. Noble, Song and Downing couldn't string passes together at all. Normally I see Cresswell coming down the wing to whack crosses into the box (I sit in the STBL in line with the corner flag) which just didn't happen for a majority of the first half. After the break, it was a whole different game. Noble going off was right, he had a bad one. Nolan was OK, not outstanding, but not terrible either. Song picked up as well after the break and looked a much better, calmer proposition. Carroll up front on his own just doesn't work, so bringing Valencia in off the wing looked to balance it out a bit better. Downing improved no end in the second half and thouroughly deserved his goal.

I wasn't surprised at the booing at half time. I was surprised by Allardyce saying it was deserved (sort of) though!

Good win, keeps us in with a shout at the top 6 table, maybe even top 4 table if we can get something out of some really tough games in the coming weeks against the big boys above us.

[Romford]

Bad move KCM! :lol:

I have no problem if people put it properly.....as you yourself know.

I'm officially mad....we can't all be the Pope !

[DrVenk]

Normally I see Cresswell coming down the wing to whack crosses into the box (I sit in the STBL in line with the corner flag) which just didn't happen for a majority of the first half.

...bringing Valencia in off the wing looked to balance it out a bit better. Downing improved no end in the second half and thouroughly deserved his goal.

The two are related. Our fullbacks just didn't have the space to exploit first half given the formation. More space and fluid passing followed when the gaffer reverted back to what should be our default formation against lesser sides.

[Romford]

Ok Romford, go ahead and ban me if you must, how dare anyone stand up against your anti sam agenda. As a moderator you should be balanced in your views or at the very least not sway everyone to your level of hatred for our manager - you pick out the negatives in every game and some like myself have had enough

You say '' the lack of manners given to us on here is nothing short of a joke.'' ... this is after you have said the following to me when all ive done is stick up for Sam after yet another win ...

''i feel Mark is one of our younger supporters who doesn't know about shape and having players in certain positions.''

''You have shown you are clueless...do yourself a favour and get to bed.''

''you are currently the poorest poster we have on here''

'' Even your mates on here are embarrassed by you ''


Im not the only poster you speak like this too. so as a Moderator perhaps you should have a word with yourself before you start threatening others.

up the hammers

Go and collect your toys....

The amount of rubbish you have come out with in the last week is laughable.

Go to the start of when i posted last night and see who responded to what...the way you have put it just shows the honesty you have.

Nobody last night was allowed to find fault in our first half display....you wouldn't allow them.

That is why i pulled you and others up....every side is allowed a view.

[Whufc06]

I know Rom, we've had our words but I can see where you are coming from with this one in particular. I just wish you'd stop quoting him as its making my 'ignore' button defunct!

[Up the Junction]

Enough, everybody.

Any posts from this point forth not relating to yesterday's match will be removed.

Thank you.

[bubbles1966]

Be curious about what people think about this: If a team shape is not working, is it too much of a risk to rearrange things significantly during the first-half -- clearly we looked off from the start -- or is it smarter, to avoid people losing assignments, to wait until halftime to change the shape.

.

He felt that it was more than just the shape and that he couldn't get all his concerns across to the players on the pitch.

Poor quality passing, poor pass selection, too much backwards, slow and sideways passing all cited alongside the positions of players and team shape. Certain players named as tired (Mark Noble) from playing 120 on tuesday.

Carlton was due to come on until Tomkins went off injured.

[Hockley Hammer]

Interestingly, he didn't take any responsibility for getting it wrong himself in the first half though did he? Just a bit of humility every now and again wouldn't go amiss. I find it hard to give credit to anyone (in all walks of life) who has made changes for the better, if they are unable to admit they made a mistake in the first place

Playing devil's advocate what did he actually get wrong? I can't see what he was trying to do because I couldn't see what the hell our players were trying to do. It appeared to me that 95% of the first half was two touches and give the ball away. If losing the ball was a big hoof then you could say they were playing to instructions, but they seemed to spend most of the first half passing to the invisible man no matter what the distance.
To me the only difference straight away after half time was the fact they passed to a team mate instead of space.
I don't believe any manager sends his team out with instructions to give the ball away at every opportunity (even Adrian had a go yesterday).
Is an instruction to pass the ball better and quicker really a tactic or just an admission that we are playing badly?

[Sloop John B]

Interestingly, he didn't take any responsibility for getting it wrong himself in the first half though did he? Just a bit of humility every now and again wouldn't go amiss. I find it hard to give credit to anyone (in all walks of life) who has made changes for the better, if they are unable to admit they made a mistake in the first place

With so many poor individual performances I can't see how you can blame the tactics in any way!

[derek zoolander]

I thought Sam was very downbeat after the win.

I wonder if that maybe is symbolic of the fact he's started to distance himself, good or bad from the results and I wondered what the implications are for his future with us if that's the case.

We smashed them 2nd half obviously, it was easy. At least Sam saw the problems in the first half and changed things. Great thing was we could have had 4 of 5 in that second half (with the offside should have had 4). The only worry is that were it a more clinical team we'd have been too far gone by then in another match.

His decisions do frustrate at times but he tends to get a bit of luck as a manager. I hope he sees what Nolan is and isn't good for and uses him sensibly (he is still a useful player for us), but Sam won't do us or Nolan any favours if he keeps playing him in roles he doesn't have the athleticism for anymore.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

you can certainly blame Allardyce for playing Downing out wide rather than in the position he has excelled i.e at the tip of the diamond. This nullified Song's influence and meant we went direct to Carroll with Nolan playing off him
we had some poor performances first half for sure, but this season has shown we play our best most effective football with the diamond as it gets Song and Downing (our two most creative and skillful players) on the ball

Alladyce obviously knew the first half tactic/ strategy/ game-plan (call it what you will) wasn't working, as he changed it at half-time

[Sloop John B]

you can certainly blame Allardyce for playing Downing out wide rather than in the position he has excelled i.e at the tip of the diamond. This nullified Song's influence and meant we went direct to Carroll with Nolan playing off him

I think Downings been off-form for the past few games regardless of where he's been playing... he's also turned in a few good shifts outwide... This idea of Downing outwide is ****, inside he's amazing is turning into a bit of a KUMB Myth.

Alladyce obviously knew the first half tactic/ strategy/ game-plan (call it what you will) wasn't working, as he changed it at half-time

Yup and something he acknowledged.

[Johnny Byrne's Boots]

I can understand why he started with Downing on the wing. Hull lined up with three at the back and it was a reasonable shout to expect our wingers to get behind their midfield and exploit the space behind them.

It didn't work for various reasons including Hull pressing us as soon as we got the ball, which usually resulted in it finding its way back to Adrian who punted it upfield.

Is it easy to change from 4-5-1 to a diamond on the fly, or does it need diagrams on a blackboard?

[Hockley Hammer]

Forget Allardyce for a second, how do our influential players get in the game in or out of their right position if nobody seems capable of playing a correct pass to their feet.

I'd love to know the stats in the first half for misplaced passes by us. One of the worst 45 minutes of passing I have ever seen. Our two most influential passers Noble and Song both having an absolute mare so what difference would it make where Downing was played?

If Downing is so influential to us, I'm sure teams would be looking to cut off his supply. We did it for Hull yesterday.

[bubbles1966]

If Downing is so influential to us, I'm sure teams would be looking to cut off his supply. We did it for Hull yesterday.

He's been close to man marked in a couple of more recent games.

[hammerdivone]

He started the team in a way he thought would counter Hulls threat, and allow us to play a more reserved game after Tuesday night. It was clear we couldn't start the game the way we played most of Tuesday and that meant changing things around.

It didn't work and we were lucky to come in HT level, he admits that and changed it. He had the balls to take off Noble who was having his poorest game in ages, probably because of the efforts he put in on Tuesday.

I think if you don't get why he started us the way we did, you don't appreciate the toll Tuesdays game took.

[Clacton-ammer]

I get what you mean Hockley regarding Downing, but you also know if there is movement, more people free it opens up different options, makes the pass easier to find as there is not just one option that you "must" make. Saying that, they couldn't pass prunes in the first half!

Really was a game of two halves, perhaps tactics, perhaps the come down after Everton in the first half, a bit of both I think.

Second half was rather more enjoyable

Sam got it wrong first half, we are at home, we are good enough to take the game to 80/85% of the PL sides currently using our best formation. The big boys come to play, I understand the change, but not for the other 80/85% as stated.