FAC5: West Bromwich Albion 4-0 West Ham Utd (14/02/15)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby hammer the hamster on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:06 pm

I only had the benefit of a dodgy stream or 2, but it appeared to me that Allardyce set up to hit them with a long ball to get behind the defence with Sakho and Valencia's pace. Pulls set up to defend deep and let us have the ball in front of them.

When WBA broke there were willing runners in front of the man on the ball, when there attacks broke down more often than not our man on the ball had only 2 forwards to pass to. There was no one busting a gut to get beyond him in support. Inevitably it meant that the player either tossed the ball forward in the hope the front 2 could hold it up or they turned backwards and slowed the play. West Brom then regrouped and had everyone behind the ball.

It was a very bad performance and I don't think we showed any intent. It was a typical Allardyce keep it tight, don't concede and nick it by the odd goal. It doesn't matter what personnel he picked it would have been the same.

So much for going for it, they played as though they meant it, we played like a team that had been on a bender the night before.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby peter49uk on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:38 pm

rossmundo wrote:The Midfield was atrocious Saturday, Sakho and Valencia looked lost having nothing behind them and chasing lost causes. Tactics were :thdn:


The players must take the blame for a lot of Saturday's debacle especially mid-field so lack lust, devoid of ideas when in possession and easily being caught on the break. Overall the passing from all the team has left a lot to be desired for a few games now, not sharp, waiting for team mates to be closed down before trying to give them the ball. Then when they themselves are closed down the ball becomes like a hot potato they end up doing stupid chancy passes, lack of movement off the ball trying to get into space doesn't help either .
Now the management must sit down and sought that mid-field out, now I'm no Nolan basher but If he isn't playing in his best position supporting the front man then he doesn't cut it in mid-field the only thing he will do is chase and harry, impact subs roll for him .
Apart from being out of form of late Nobel is being asked to play in a position that doesn't suit him.
Song well I think most have commented rightly on his recent form, but why is he still allowed to carry on like he has been doing?
Downing's form has dipped with the overall down turn of the mid-field but I will say again if he isn't playing at the tip of that diamond then he is not strong enough to play anywhere else as he is just not that physical as a player.
Get Cheikhou Kouyate back into mid-field ( have the gonads to go with the new guy Henry or one of Reece Burke or Reece Oxford in the back four till injuries improve) so my mid-field would be at the moment Kouyate Poyet Downing (at the tip ) and Song with a strong word in his shell like to get back to how he was playing.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:05 pm

rossmundo wrote:Great So next time we get humiliated I can blame it on fatigue Statistics. rather than we were absolutely shocking and clueless.


There you go, now you're getting it.

You do realise how fatigue effects decision making ability, concentration reaction times etc.....don't you?
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby bullyhammer on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:08 pm

I'm normally an optimistic person (at least when it comes to West Ham): I almost always think we have a chance to win games, even against the toughest of opponents. But for some reason, I haven't been able to get excited about this season's FA Cup. I just never had the feeling, which many seemed to, that this could be our year. It wasn't that I foresaw the pasting we were handed on Saturday. I just never thought we would go all the way. A 4-nil loss would usually see things being thrown around the room, black curses and vitriolic Anglo-Saxon invective making any passer-by looking around for the drunken sailor from whom they must emanate. But this weekend... not so much.

So I guess you can all blame me, it was my fault. Can we put our happy heads (8th place) back on, and just move on now?
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby LincolnshireHammer on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:30 pm

RM6 wrote:They're also human beings, not machines, so like the rest of us prone to....wait for it.....fatigue.

Whilst I respect that footballers are not machines, I do not respect Sam for coming out to the press and using it as an excuse for an utterly **** performance. West Brom have played the same amount of games. Just makes him look like a mug.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:34 pm

LincolnshireHammer wrote: West Brom have played the same amount of games. Just makes him look like a mug.


It really doesn't.

It's really not a simple as just counting the games without considering a multitude of other factors that you can take from the games. Work rate, distance covered, etc etc etc...
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby LincolnshireHammer on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:41 pm

The difference can't be a lot though can it RM6?

It's the fact our manager uses this excuse over the other countless reasons as to why we got beat so heavily on Saturday. Not that we were so incompetent in other areas? Not that we have no movement going forward? Not that his subs were pretty poor?

Man takes no responsibility for his and his team's actions. I don't expect him to come out and slag the team off in a post-match interview, but to claim the disaster was all due to fatigue is laughable.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:44 pm

LincolnshireHammer wrote:The difference can't be a lot though can it RM6?


Doesn't need to be a lot in order to see a dramatic reduction in performance.

It's been a long time since I did the experiments but to see how, for example, oxygen deprecation can hinder reaction time and concentration is startling.

Small percentages can make massive differences.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby saludo de carlitos on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:44 pm

I found this interesting from Owen on Tony Pulis training methods, maybe this is why he does well everywhere he goes, he certainly plays some good stuff as well imo.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/micha ... off-video/
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby Hockley Hammer on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:53 pm

LincolnshireHammer wrote:It's the fact our manager uses this excuse over the other countless reasons as to why we got beat so heavily on Saturday. Not that we were so incompetent in other areas? Not that we have no movement going forward? Not that his subs were pretty poor?

Man takes no responsibility for his and his team's actions. I don't expect him to come out and slag the team off in a post-match interview, but to claim the disaster was all due to fatigue is laughable.
You want the manager to take responsibility for his team's actions then you obviously believe that he sent them out to play the way they did Saturday. I've never heard a manager say don't worry about passing or tackling once you're out there. If you were there we never got going and we were out of it by half time and despite everything there was nothing in the tank second half. So fatigue sounds a decent explanation to me.
His first sub was the one everybody wanted at the ground yet Nolan was far from the worst performer. I think most people expected Valencia to get hooked but he took off Sakho - maybe he's got the next few weeks on his mind and is trying to keep Sakho functioning when Valencia is obviously fitter.

O'Brien in at CB so that Kouyate could move into midfield but the game was over.

Nothing wrong with the subs - we played **** we lost - and West Brom had their finest performance of the season.

Why throw somebody on for a debut in such terrible circumstances?
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby sword on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:56 pm

LincolnshireHammer
but to claim the disaster was all due to fatigue is laughable.


Absolutely right.

Professional athletes? Fatigue? We've all been 25. Remember, the days when you used to play footy for an hour after work every day, goto the pub, fvck like a bunny, watch a film til 1 in the morning, and up the next day and do it all over again?
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:59 pm

sword wrote:Professional athletes? Fatigue? We've all been 25. Remember, the days when you used to play footy for an hour after work every day, goto the pub, fvck like a bunny, watch a film til 1 in the morning, and up the next day and do it all over again?


And what does any of that have to do with being an elite level athlete and their conditioning?

60 minutes of trotting round the park, a few beer plus 2 pumps and a squirt are in no way comparable to the demands of Premier League football.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby sword on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:09 pm

The point being that if mere mortals can avoid fatigue, I'm sure professional athletes can. I just don't buy the fatigue excuse.

Don't forget we were on top until they scored, well that's the way it looked to me. We seemed to have the better of it in midfield, but strangely no penetration, I don't think we had a shot on target in the first 25.

One of those games where it was all going so well, and then we just seemed to lose focus.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:11 pm

sword wrote:The point being that if mere mortals can avoid fatigue, I'm sure professional athletes can. I just don't buy the fatigue excuse.


You don't avoid it. It's cumulative and more likely to affect a professional athlete than a pissed head wandering about over the park and failing to satisfy the missus.

You don;t have to buy it, it's a fact.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby Whufc06 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:12 pm

Whatever way you look at it a manager is gonna be questioned if a team he sends out performs like we did. He has received a lot of acclaim this season for some of our performances and he will get stick for this one. Both rightly so.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby rare as rockinghorse shat on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:14 pm

sword wrote:The point being that if mere mortals can avoid fatigue, I'm sure professional athletes can. I just don't buy the fatigue excuse.


It's because you likely don't have a full understanding of what it requires to become and maintain fitness as a top level, finely tuned athlete.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby sword on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:23 pm

rare as rockinghorse shat wrote:It's because you likely don't have a full understanding of what it requires to become and maintain fitness as a top level, finely tuned athlete.


Could be, my understanding is that professional athletes getting enough sleep and avoiding alcohol are the big ones (I'm hoping that neither of these applied to the players on Saturday). I'd be happy to learn more if you've a link or 2 to post.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby LincolnshireHammer on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:24 pm

Hockley Hammer wrote:You want the manager to take responsibility for his team's actions then you obviously believe that he sent them out to play the way they did Saturday. I've never heard a manager say don't worry about passing or tackling once you're out there. If you were there we never got going and we were out of it by half time and despite everything there was nothing in the tank second half. So fatigue sounds a decent explanation to me.

Who does take responsibility for the team's performance then, Hockley? Isn't that what we have Sam for? To manage the team?

If fatigue was such an issue, why were we even playing (for example) Nolan over Jarvis in the first place? Jarvis, an experienced left wing, who hasn't played in a while, over Nolan, not a winger by any means, and not in the right physical condition. Seems like a no-brainer to me...but not to Sam obviously...

And where has this, "don't worry about passing or tackling while you're out there" nonsense come from?
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:25 pm

sword wrote:Could be, my understanding is that professional athletes getting enough sleep and avoiding alcohol are the big ones (I'm hoping that neither of these applied to the players on Saturday). I'd be happy to learn more if you've a link or 2 to post.


We're not simply talking about getting enough sleep.

It's everything. Refueling muscle glycogen stores. break down of lactate build up, repair of muscle fibre damage, DOMS and so on and so forth.

Trust me, I've a BSc in this.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby _fortunes_ on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:38 pm

RM6 wrote:

We're not simply talking about getting enough sleep.

It's everything. Refueling muscle glycogen stores. break down of lactate build up, repair of muscle fibre damage, DOMS and so on and so forth.

Trust me, I've a BSc in this.


Fatigue can be managed as posted on the previous page too and all the above things are correct. Where was the club on this though? Why were the players allowed to get into such a physical state and become fatigued in the first place.

Elite level Sport huh :?
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