FAC5: West Bromwich Albion 4-0 West Ham Utd (14/02/15)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby sword on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:41 pm

RM6 wrote:Trust me, I've a BSc in this.

Good! Then I have a question. Does fatigue explain why we were so off the boil after 25 mins? DOMS wouldn't seem to fit, but from a BSc Sports Science (I'm guessing) perspective what would be your interpretation. I'm truly interested (you've noticed!).
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:43 pm

_fortunes_ wrote:Fatigue can be managed as posted on the previous page too and all the above things are correct. Where was the club on this though? Why were the players allowed to get into such a physical state and become fatigued in the first place.

Elite level Sport huh :?


Were not talking about players being in a "state". Outwardly it might not even be noticeable, the players may not even have perceived it themselves. We're talking about very fine margins, small percentages, milliseconds in reaction times, and decision making.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby bobbymooresbracelet on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:15 pm

^
You should be Sam's spin doctor :wink:

I thought we were sh*t to be honest.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:20 pm

bobbymooresbracelet wrote:^
You should be Sam's spin doctor :wink:


Maybe I am...

I thought we were sh*t to be honest.


F*ck yes we were. You won't here any disagreement from me on that.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby irving boleyn on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:27 pm

A bit simplistic just to compare number of games played..

To criticize Sam's assertions you would need to assess the load carried by the defensive midfield, for that is where the problems lie.. Probably fatigue is a catch all expression to cover Noble's convalescence, Song's apparent deterioration and Nolan's old age

The two strikers arent a natural pairing. They are both individual strikers who can do very little other than run and shoot. Their goals/chances have generally come from astute passes from other than those two. When the providers,mostly Downing and Song are pressed to defend, this service ceases, Similarly the wide attack is stifled when our full backs are kept deep.

Kouyate in front of Tomkins and Collins will make a difference.... ,.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby Sloop John B on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:34 pm

irving boleyn wrote:Kouyate in front of Tomkins and Collins will make a difference.... ,.


It's a bonkers phenomenon but when we get the rest of the first team back the performances and results will improve. This game is generally about how good the players you have are.

What we've seen recently is when we get a few injuries to key players we don't have a squad with enough quality to replace like with like. Although If that's news to anybody I'd be really surprised!
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby DODGYDAL on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:42 pm

Kludgehammer wrote:I agree that Song hasn't been great, but I think that part of the reason he's giving the ball away is that he's trying to force passes because there's so little movement around and ahead of him. The rest of the time it's just bad passing.


Then he needs to keep it simple or maybe try to drive forward with the ball to create a bit of space. He was truly awful on Sat and imo was the worst of a bad bunch 15 mil and 100k a week not for me based on his last 6 or 7 games. He seems to have developed a touch of the Adebayour about him strolling round not giving a **** after a very impressive start.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby Hockley Hammer on Mon Feb 16, 2015 4:56 pm

LincolnshireHammer wrote:Who does take responsibility for the team's performance then, Hockley? Isn't that what we have Sam for? To manage the team?

If fatigue was such an issue, why were we even playing (for example) Nolan over Jarvis in the first place? Jarvis, an experienced left wing, who hasn't played in a while, over Nolan, not a winger by any means, and not in the right physical condition. Seems like a no-brainer to me...but not to Sam obviously...

And where has this, "don't worry about passing or tackling while you're out there" nonsense come from?
LH I don't believe tiredness is an excuse but it sure is an explanation for the shambles on Saturday.

You're picking out Nolan when there were 11 bad performances, which has become a bit typical lately. Our entire midfield were shocking that is where I get the tackling and passing bit from.

You don't send players out to play that badly, but you sure as **** can't play any kind of football if you can't pass to a team mate or win a tackle. The same midfield that put in a fantastic effort against a top three side six days earlier. It's baffling - the same players.

Tactics - our tactics appeared to be two touches and give the ball away. It never improved after the first 15 minutes.

Now people are saying we should have made changes, if we'd made changes and the same thing happened the manager would be criticised for changing a team that had just got two decent results.

I know where the ultimate responsibility lies - Sam will get the sack the players won't.

It seems to me that Pullis has got his side pumped up to go out and get results that weren't happening before with new belief. I can't explain our performance as there was absolutely nothing positive about it from players 1-14 the coaching staff, There was nothing full stop.

Unfortunately I have seen it all too often over the years to start demanding answers.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby bobcar on Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:03 pm

peter49uk wrote:The players must take the blame for a lot of Saturday's debacle especially mid-field so lack lust


I really don't want the players to be displaying lust on the field. :lol:
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:06 pm

sword wrote:Good! Then I have a question. Does fatigue explain why we were so off the boil after 25 mins? DOMS wouldn't seem to fit, but from a BSc Sports Science (I'm guessing) perspective what would be your interpretation. I'm truly interested (you've noticed!).


Hard to say without knowing more about the individuals but I wouldn't discount the psychological side of the players.

We do seem to start well but dip if we don't get the goal.

On Saturday the opening stages of the game weren't terrible and I could help feeling the first goal was against the run of play, and resulted from what was really our first mistake. The 2nd was a nice strike and we looked like the confidence was sucked out of us after that which did surprise me as we've fought our way back into games well this season after conceding first.

Perhaps it was fatigue at the point and maybe mental rather than physical, after the 2nd there was almost collective acceptance that they didn't have enough in the tank to pull this one back. We looked beaten.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby sword on Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:54 pm

:thup:
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby Sloop John B on Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:02 pm

RM6 wrote:Perhaps it was fatigue at the point and maybe mental rather than physical,


The disappointment of ManUtd game, the exhaustion of the Southampton game and the Carroll injury... all contributed to a frustrating few weeks.

If the fans are collectively going "FFS" then I'm sure the players are and like you said, give away a few easy goals and suddenly the legs are twice as heavy.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:44 pm

Sloop John B wrote:If the fans are collectively going "FFS" then I'm sure the players are and like you said, give away a few easy goals and suddenly the legs are twice as heavy.


Indeed, I've noticed through my own exertions that some times physical performance came be an act of pure will.

Dan, being a gym warrior might back me up on this, sometimes things are easy and you can smash through the weights with PBs all over the place, other times you can fight your way through it on simple aggression and sometimes you just don't have the mental fortitude to do what you know know you can be capable of.

Hopefully it was just one of those days.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby Whufc06 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:03 pm

With regards to Song, it's more likely that your poor performance will stand out when you constantly seek the ball and give your teammates options rather than only touch it about a dozen times.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby badgers1 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:12 pm

RM6 would we be right in assuming that Spurs should be more fatigued than us on Sunday having played on Thursday evening or is it negated by them not playing last weekend?
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby Monkey Magic on Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:28 pm

So WBA are away at Villa. Would have got our 4th away tie in a row had we won, and our 3rd prem team. Makes me feel a little better about Sat. A lower league team at home for WBA would have been tough to swallow.
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Re: West Bromwich Albion v West Ham Utd (FA Cup): match thread

Postby RM6 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:30 pm

badgers1 wrote:RM6 would we be right in assuming that Spurs should be more fatigued than us on Sunday having played on Thursday evening or is it negated by them not playing last weekend?


It's a fair assumption, one which is back up by the "continental hangover".
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