Sunderland 2-2 West Ham Utd (03/10/15)
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Lots of random stuff from reading the last 21 hours of posts...
Lanzini was selfish at times... but equally it was his shot that caused the second, so to be fair to Lanzini his long shooting achieved 1 goal in 90 minutes which is IMO a fairly decent return.
Antonio will get his chance sometime. Its only been a month. It could be soon judging by moses' performance (though he set up the first seconds after I was thinking how poorly he was playing).
You can't judge a team over 90 minutes. We were poor first half and dissappointing when it was 2-2, but what about over the season or 5 games? Where are we in the league? That's what tells us where we are, not 45 terrible minutes. The positives are numerous. Not least that we do actually have a squad with goals in it, a fair bit of quality at the back, lots of solid mid-level PL players, and a few players who (on their day) are only one level down from world class IMO. We have the potential to get to the point of being solid Top 6/8 in the next year or two and we have to set our sights very high.
But we also have to remember that no team - not even City or the current (spit) champions (chortle) can win every game, even when they should.
There is a middle ground - we have shown that we can beat anyone and should be disappointed any time we don't. But that does not for one second mean that we should expect to win every game or over-react when we inevitably (all teams do) drop points.
Zarate could and should have come on earlier.
Jelavic needs to be told he is not a goalscorer - he seemed to be trying to score at every opportunity to me. His job is to work hard, cause trouble and get the ball back into the danger zone if it comes to him in a 'half-chance' position. Not fluff header after header from fairly tough positions because he isn't top class.
I would have brought obiang on at HT for noble, if not after 30 mins. I'm not going to slate Noble, but he's out of form and Obiang looks handy so why not try something else next time out? When Song is back it'll be interesting - not impossible that by then Noble will be 4th choice for one of two places (with Oxford still an option for certain situations). Kouyate is one of the best we have, but he had a off day too. I'd give him more of a chance than noble because of his pace, energy and power running with the ball.
Anyone else see the ref trying to tell jenkinson that pushing opposition players with two hands repeatedly is only going to result in repeated free-kicks? Jenks was a bit of a moron. Nice goal though.
Lanzini was selfish at times... but equally it was his shot that caused the second, so to be fair to Lanzini his long shooting achieved 1 goal in 90 minutes which is IMO a fairly decent return.
Antonio will get his chance sometime. Its only been a month. It could be soon judging by moses' performance (though he set up the first seconds after I was thinking how poorly he was playing).
You can't judge a team over 90 minutes. We were poor first half and dissappointing when it was 2-2, but what about over the season or 5 games? Where are we in the league? That's what tells us where we are, not 45 terrible minutes. The positives are numerous. Not least that we do actually have a squad with goals in it, a fair bit of quality at the back, lots of solid mid-level PL players, and a few players who (on their day) are only one level down from world class IMO. We have the potential to get to the point of being solid Top 6/8 in the next year or two and we have to set our sights very high.
But we also have to remember that no team - not even City or the current (spit) champions (chortle) can win every game, even when they should.
There is a middle ground - we have shown that we can beat anyone and should be disappointed any time we don't. But that does not for one second mean that we should expect to win every game or over-react when we inevitably (all teams do) drop points.
Zarate could and should have come on earlier.
Jelavic needs to be told he is not a goalscorer - he seemed to be trying to score at every opportunity to me. His job is to work hard, cause trouble and get the ball back into the danger zone if it comes to him in a 'half-chance' position. Not fluff header after header from fairly tough positions because he isn't top class.
I would have brought obiang on at HT for noble, if not after 30 mins. I'm not going to slate Noble, but he's out of form and Obiang looks handy so why not try something else next time out? When Song is back it'll be interesting - not impossible that by then Noble will be 4th choice for one of two places (with Oxford still an option for certain situations). Kouyate is one of the best we have, but he had a off day too. I'd give him more of a chance than noble because of his pace, energy and power running with the ball.
Anyone else see the ref trying to tell jenkinson that pushing opposition players with two hands repeatedly is only going to result in repeated free-kicks? Jenks was a bit of a moron. Nice goal though.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
If we have to drop our Captain as 4th choice we will slip down the table quicker than maintaining our position in the top 6 like we have done with him leading the side so far.
It's asking for trouble, rarely any other Club drops their Captain even when they're having a little dip in form.
Noble whether people want to accept it or not is the focal point of the side and is Bilics right hand man. If he goes on a really poor run of form longer than a couple of errant passes which the whole team has managed to do, then yes I agree he should be dropped. But right now he's the first name on the team sheet and I'm glad Bilic sees it the same way by always selecting him.
Soon he'll begin to pick up his form again and we'll look like the side who picked up massive wins against the likes of Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool with him at the heart of everything.
It's asking for trouble, rarely any other Club drops their Captain even when they're having a little dip in form.
Noble whether people want to accept it or not is the focal point of the side and is Bilics right hand man. If he goes on a really poor run of form longer than a couple of errant passes which the whole team has managed to do, then yes I agree he should be dropped. But right now he's the first name on the team sheet and I'm glad Bilic sees it the same way by always selecting him.
Soon he'll begin to pick up his form again and we'll look like the side who picked up massive wins against the likes of Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool with him at the heart of everything.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Windowlickers day out......and couldn't you tell support wise.
As for the game...Sunderland played very well in the first half with the help of some very dodgy reffing. Our midfield was shocking ....and we were very lucky to go in only 2-1 down.
2nd half was totally different...ref realised he had been a disgrace and decided to even it up. Our midfield got a bit more time and we played with a lot more width. I personally didn't think we did enough to win it and was happy with the infamous respected point.
As for the game...Sunderland played very well in the first half with the help of some very dodgy reffing. Our midfield was shocking ....and we were very lucky to go in only 2-1 down.
2nd half was totally different...ref realised he had been a disgrace and decided to even it up. Our midfield got a bit more time and we played with a lot more width. I personally didn't think we did enough to win it and was happy with the infamous respected point.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
You're dead right about how we were fortunate to go in only 2-1 down when it should have been 3-0 had it not fallen to Borini.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Stands for areMadMart wrote:been racking my brains - what does the A stand for in SAFC - please
Sunderland are fu...ing crap I think xxx
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Shocking miss...and cost them the point.Colours never run wrote:You're dead right about how we were fortunate to go in only 2-1 down when it should have been 3-0 had it not fallen to Borini.
Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
disagree, even when playing his best he isnt the focal point. Payet is. He has been the different from this season and last.. he has come in. gets involved every game. Scores, sets up goals. All good attacks seem to go through him or lanziniColours never run wrote:If we have to drop our Captain as 4th choice we will slip down the table quicker than maintaining our position in the top 6 like we have done with him leading the side so far.
It's asking for trouble, rarely any other Club drops their Captain even when they're having a little dip in form.
Noble whether people want to accept it or not is the focal point of the side and is Bilics right hand man. If he goes on a really poor run of form longer than a couple of errant passes which the whole team has managed to do, then yes I agree he should be dropped. But right now he's the first name on the team sheet and I'm glad Bilic sees it the same way by always selecting him.
Soon he'll begin to pick up his form again and we'll look like the side who picked up massive wins against the likes of Arsenal, Man City and Liverpool with him at the heart of everything.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Hopefully we'll never play Kouyate in a midfield 2 again after yesterday. Bloke is brilliant going forwards, one of our best, but has no desire to track back and defend, and always leaves the midfield overrun. Not the first game he's done it this season either..
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
He does it in every game, he strolls back all the time, he is decent at defending when he is goal side of an opponent but once past him he makes no effort to get backLincolnhammer92 wrote:Hopefully we'll never play Kouyate in a midfield 2 again after yesterday. Bloke is brilliant going forwards, one of our best, but has no desire to track back and defend, and always leaves the midfield overrun. Not the first game he's done it this season either..
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
What I'm also getting at by Noble being the focal point is he's the one that all the players, even Payet looks too during the games and how to manage situations.
He's the one that's always talking to the team instructing them accordingly which seems to get the desired reaction out of them with the results we keep picking up. I see even when we score a goal and they look to him for advice and how to approach the game from that moment in time. When Payet has the ball at his feet he is then the focal point of attacks but out of possession the onus is still on Noble and he copes with it well in my opinion. Those are the moments I don't think he gets enough credit for.
He's the one that's always talking to the team instructing them accordingly which seems to get the desired reaction out of them with the results we keep picking up. I see even when we score a goal and they look to him for advice and how to approach the game from that moment in time. When Payet has the ball at his feet he is then the focal point of attacks but out of possession the onus is still on Noble and he copes with it well in my opinion. Those are the moments I don't think he gets enough credit for.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
I assume Moses will have to sit out the Chelsea game, although I think it will be Obiang that comes in with us reverting to the front six who started at Liverpool.Chip Korea wrote:Antonio will get his chance sometime. Its only been a month. It could be soon judging by moses' performance
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Both Kouyate and Noble need an absolute rocket up their arses, simply not good enough in both effort and quality for a good few games now, both of em strolling around like their places in the team are a given, I'm hoping we go back to 433 with 3 CM's for palace, but if Bilic wants to persist with 4231 then one of Kouyate or Noble needs to be on the bench cos they ain't working as a two !
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
I'm not saying drop Noble. I'm saying we need to constantly appraise the side and see where we can upgrade the relative weak links using our squad. And we have Obiang there.
I think that's the answer. I have no problem with Noble in the side, but I do think we have the goals in the side that we means we can tighten up a bit and play obiang.
Seems to me Payet and Lanzini deserve their places. I love Kayoute's energy (he is not beyond criticism by the way). That leaves Noble (if we're gonna play him) and Sakho.
Not a bad balance IMHO for games where we're likely to play less on the break.
Song and Valencia have got to be serious contenders for starting spots - I'm really liking how good our squad is looking.
I think that's the answer. I have no problem with Noble in the side, but I do think we have the goals in the side that we means we can tighten up a bit and play obiang.
Seems to me Payet and Lanzini deserve their places. I love Kayoute's energy (he is not beyond criticism by the way). That leaves Noble (if we're gonna play him) and Sakho.
Not a bad balance IMHO for games where we're likely to play less on the break.
Song and Valencia have got to be serious contenders for starting spots - I'm really liking how good our squad is looking.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Agreed about the formation Durham. Think it doesn't do either of them any favours as only one Adam is prepared to sit as the other goes AWOL far too often trying to join attacks.
we wouldn't be as exposed if the midfield 3 contained 3 of Obiang, Noble, Kouyate, Song (when fit). Payet, Lanzini/Moses on wings with Sakho/Carroll up top.
we wouldn't be as exposed if the midfield 3 contained 3 of Obiang, Noble, Kouyate, Song (when fit). Payet, Lanzini/Moses on wings with Sakho/Carroll up top.
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
I think the best we have looked this season was Liverpool away 433, compact, solid, full of energy and still dangerous going forward, we should go back to that, Obiang in for Moses will make a huge difference IMO !
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Completely agree. We look much more solid and compact where we've looked at our very best.
I'm not a great fan of 4231 as it tends to lead to a split between defence and attack if players don't adhere to their jobs to the letter and with great discipline. It makes the midfield space very weak and exposed which we have looked at times playing that way.
It would mean shifting Payet out wider instead of always central but because of his quality he should be able to cope and float inside when he sees the right moments to exploit the spaces.
I'm not a great fan of 4231 as it tends to lead to a split between defence and attack if players don't adhere to their jobs to the letter and with great discipline. It makes the midfield space very weak and exposed which we have looked at times playing that way.
It would mean shifting Payet out wider instead of always central but because of his quality he should be able to cope and float inside when he sees the right moments to exploit the spaces.
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Bad darts if so.
If not, whom ?
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
Are you talking about the WHU fans that decided to take advantage of the free coach travel ?Romford wrote:Windowlickers day out......and couldn't you tell support wise.
As for the game...Sunderland played very well in the first half with the help of some very dodgy reffing. Our midfield was shocking ....and we were very lucky to go in only 2-1 down.
2nd half was totally different...ref realised he had been a disgrace and decided to even it up. Our midfield got a bit more time and we played with a lot more width. I personally didn't think we did enough to win it and was happy with the infamous respected point.
Bad darts if so.
If not, whom ?
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Re: Sunderland V West Ham: Match thread
when song's fit, having one of the very best players i've seen play in the claret and blue in recent years bearing down on their place in the squad should provide said rocket.durham city hammer wrote:Both Kouyate and Noble need an absolute rocket up their arse.
assuming we get the pre-christmas song, that is.