Watford 2-0 West Ham Utd (31/10/15)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

Moderator: Gnome

Post Reply
User avatar
Colours never run
Posts: 25386
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"
Has liked: 6811 likes
Total likes: 2363 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Colours never run »

It's the disconnect between the 2 forms of defence and attack 4231 naturally creates on the pitch. If not played with discipline, there ends up being a huge gap between the back four and the front four with just 2 in the middle putting out fires on their own. With Kouyate who goes walk about it looks even worse when it's ofteneft to Noble to do it on his own as everyone else is too concerned about joining attacks.
User avatar
Romford
Big X
Posts: 39027
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:16 pm
Location: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYyxdmHogLU
Contact:

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Romford »

the pink palermo wrote: Lacks the basic positional discipline to do the job he was asked to do yesterday .
Plus they put a player on him which stopped his surging runs.....they pushed him to pass and we all know he's not Paul Scholes.
nickkarkie
Posts: 6946
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:41 pm
Has liked: 67 likes
Total likes: 166 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by nickkarkie »

Finally someone agreeing with me that Kouyate has no positional/tactical sense, thanks TPP.

Colours never run is saying that the formation causes the lines to be so far apart, that just isn't the case, what causes lines to be so far apart is players not doing their jobs/bad instructions, if managers worked purely on getting the team to play as a unit they would lose very few games, bad individuals usually cause the gaps, kouyate has been positionally poor in games when he has played in front of noble and against palace and Watford he also failed to hold his position. We need a top quality defensive midfielder, I don't think song is the answer either
User avatar
Colours never run
Posts: 25386
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"
Has liked: 6811 likes
Total likes: 2363 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Colours never run »

I don't disagree with a lot of what you say, Nick. And I don't think it's just the formation/it can be personnel as well of course. I just don't particularly like the formation for the players we have at our disposal when the majority are near enough fit now. There was a clear disconnect on the weekend however on this occasion, attackers and Defenders and none of it worked in cohesion. 4231 can do that to teams when not played with discipline.
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44311
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2424 likes
Total likes: 2633 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by sendô »

Boo Bilic out etc.

It's frustrating watching how well we play one week and then how many silly mistakes we make that give away goals another.

Another red card too.

Meh.
User avatar
fjthegrey
Posts: 23050
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:35 pm
Location: Ayakin
Has liked: 14 likes
Total likes: 1170 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by fjthegrey »

Kouyate is a box to box player. At his best charging around the pitch getting involved physically. You don't anchor your midfield with him. It's a silly waste of him as a player. Obiang is far smarter in that role.
nickkarkie
Posts: 6946
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:41 pm
Has liked: 67 likes
Total likes: 166 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by nickkarkie »

I agree Fj but I would also add that Vieira and Petit were box to box but still had the discipline to know when to sit and when to go. I would never use him as our holding player, it stifles his forward running and leaves us exposed with his lack of defensive discipline
User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 16360
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty
Has liked: 358 likes
Total likes: 1446 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Aceface »

I know it's only a small sample size, but have we ever had one of our now habitual horror halves while Obiang was playing?

It doesn't seem to me that we lose anything much passing-wise using him over Noble or Kouyate, but he has seemed to settle the defence with his presence more than they have. I didn't rate him when I watched him at Samp but I've been pleasantly surprised at what he's done here so far.

Interesting he's not even making the bench at the moment.
User avatar
Aceface
Posts: 16360
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:01 am
Location: Blighty
Has liked: 358 likes
Total likes: 1446 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Aceface »

sendô wrote:
It's frustrating watching how well we play one week and then how many silly mistakes we make that give away goals another.
Not much middle ground since Bilic arrived is there? It's either a performance for the ages, or we kick the ball into our own net a few times and pick up a red doing it.
User avatar
Colours never run
Posts: 25386
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:46 am
Location: "Be in no doubt, we are part of the most successful stadium migration in history"
Has liked: 6811 likes
Total likes: 2363 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Colours never run »

We wouldn't get the ill discipline in the midfield if we played with a 3. That way we can allow Kouyate to play and go charging around doing what he does best knowing we would still have plenty of cover without losing too much from the side both defensively and attacking wise. I hope Bilic soon reverts back to it with Song around the corner.
irving boleyn
Posts: 4768
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:13 pm
Location: Woodford Green
Has liked: 61 likes
Total likes: 82 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by irving boleyn »

He's not box to box...that implies he can be creative when he gets to the sharp end.

He is very valuable as a " burster", breaking up attacks and having the initial strength and pace to make ten yards or so and find a teammate in a good position and then get back into position, although if it was occasionally apt for him to go for the return pass,,surely he would be covered ? And if it is his brief not to go beyond the half way line,that is an easy instruction to follow.
.
Grandad Hammer
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:17 pm

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Grandad Hammer »

Exert from a conversation with my 11yo grandson on Saturday afternoon, "Grandad why is it we can beat Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool, Crystal Palace and then lose to Watford?" I am still trying to come up with an answer!
User avatar
Romford
Big X
Posts: 39027
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:16 pm
Location: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYyxdmHogLU
Contact:

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Romford »

Grandad Hammer wrote:Exert from a conversation with my 11yo grandson on Saturday afternoon, "Grandad why is it we can beat Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool, Crystal Palace and then lose to Watford?" I am still trying to come up with an answer!
Tell him Watford are above Palace now...and it came about by very hard work.
User avatar
hammer1975
Posts: 16641
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 10:16 pm
Has liked: 934 likes
Total likes: 1089 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by hammer1975 »

I assumed Obiang was injured rather than not selected for the bench - apologies if missed a post confirming he was indeed fit. Surely he must be one of the first names on the sub bench at least.

If he wasn't selected then the links with return to Italy may have more to them than I credited
User avatar
Knighter10WHU
Posts: 4159
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 10:22 pm
Location: Berkshire.
Has liked: 154 likes
Total likes: 193 likes

Re: Watford v West Ham United: Match Thread

Post by Knighter10WHU »

Bad day at the office, we move on to next week.

I found some of the subs Bilic made very strange. Taking off Moses at half-time seemed harsh, I thought he was beginning to look decent and was getting in behind the full backs a fair amount. Following on from this to bring on both Zarate and Valencia outwide wasn't great, our ball retention in the second half was non-existent. To then bring Jelavic on for Noble was madness, we clearly were not having any of the ball why would you take off 1 of the 2 midfielders we had on?

For me Antonio should have had some game time and Valencia put through the middle with Carroll but we live and learn.
Post Reply