Tottenham 4-1 West Ham Utd (22/11/15)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

Moderator: Gnome

Post Reply
User avatar
sendô
Posts: 44311
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:41 pm
Location: rubbing my eyes in disbelief - we've won a European trophy!
Has liked: 2424 likes
Total likes: 2633 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by sendô »

It has to be said, as poor as we were overall and as good as Spurs played, poor defending really did kill us.

1. Jenks caught too deep playing Kane onside, then getting too tight and allowing him to roll him.
2. Reid letting Alderwerewolf lose him for the corner, somewhat harsh as it was Sakho that blocked him but thems the breaks and they score a free header at the near post barely 6 yards out.
3. Adrian rolling it out to Tomkins when he should be blasting it upfield, and Tomkins then compounding the error and rolling it straight to their midfield rather than clearing his lines.
4. I don't really know what to say about the fourth, allowing their full back to stroll into the box and dink one outside of his boot into the corner of the net.

The rest of the tactics, Carroll up top, lack of pace, 4-4-2 etc are largely irrelevant if we keep doing the above.

We're now 20 goals conceded in 12 games. Far too many if we want to stay in and around where we are now for long.
User avatar
Upton Carp
Posts: 780
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:32 pm
Has liked: 33 likes
Total likes: 8 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Upton Carp »

That was an awful day. Hate to say it but they played us off the field. So many of our players look tired and simply not up for it.

Agree with others about AC. Put him up against Kane and it is no contest. And to think, we had a spoiler about their midfield (and HK) during the French match but learned nothing from its excellent performance.

I cannot believe that all the heart has gone out of the team just because of Payet's injury, but that is what it looks like to me. That being the case we will be in deep doo-doo before he returns.

Has the Slav love fest passed now, I ask?
Boleyn Bill
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:12 pm

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Boleyn Bill »

brownout wrote:We too stayed to the end in the upper tier. Paid £54 and weren't going to leave early - at least we saw a good goal from Lanzini.

I hope you weren't the idiot who kicked the back out of his seat at the final whistle - right in front of a CCTV camera.
Not me mate. I'm far too long in the tooth to allow a poor West Ham performance to induce me into a criminal act and the potential ramifications.

I didn't see that happen - were you down near the front or up at the back?
User avatar
hammers92
Posts: 12081
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:42 pm
Has liked: 317 likes
Total likes: 1748 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by hammers92 »

Upton Carp wrote:That was an awful day. Hate to say it but they played us off the field. So many of our players look tired and simply not up for it.

Agree with others about AC. Put him up against Kane and it is no contest. And to think, we had a spoiler about their midfield (and HK) during the French match but learned nothing from its excellent performance.

I cannot believe that all the heart has gone out of the team just because of Payet's injury, but that is what it looks like to me. That being the case we will be in deep doo-doo before he returns.

Has the Slav love fest passed now, I ask?
Not one jolt, he's still the first West Ham manager in 50 years to win at Anfield and even if we finish mid table, being there that day was truly something. I didn't agree with his deployment of Sakho on the right but everyone on the pitch yesterday quite simply didn't turn up and perform to the levels they can
User avatar
Kermit
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 7:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire
Has liked: 94 likes
Total likes: 321 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Kermit »

Imo there has been a lot of over reaction to our defeat, mainly I must say on other forums.

My thoughts are that Tottenham are a very good side,. They haven't lost since the opening day, and that I believe was an own goal. They have also beaten Manchester City by a similar scoreline and, if they continue to play as they did yesterday, they are a very good bet to replace Chelsea in the CL next season.

That said we were poor and, for me, it is becoming apparent that whilst Jenkinson and Cresswell are decent when going forward neither are good defenders, which surely is their main function in what is a back 4 set up.

Much has been said about Carroll and my opinion is that he's not going to be any use in a side which tries to play it's football at ground level. He may possibly have his uses as a substitute to "mix it up" with, say, 30 minutes left but as a starter---forget it.

I still think we have the nucleus of a decent side, even without Payet, and I don't think it will be too long before Bilic realises that Ogbonna is a "must start" along with Song. And if that means the two home developed guys dropping to the bench then so be it, although if it was my choice I'd move Tomkins to RB to replace Jenkinson.

We have some winnable games between now and year end along with a visit to Old Trafford. Imo we'll have a decent idea where we can expect to finish by the time the Scvousers and Klopp come looking for revenge on 2nd January.I don't thin 11 or 12 points drom our next 6 games is beyond our capabilities so I'd be disappointed if we haven't passed the 30 point mark by the end of the year.
Boleyn Bill
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:12 pm

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Boleyn Bill »

Sarfend Hammer wrote:Tottenham were only as good as we allowed them to be. Bilic should have been less effusive in his praise because I hate them with a passion.
I doubt that Bilic was paying too much attention to your feelings when making his after match comments. Personally I hope that Bilic uses Spurs as an example to our players going forward. He should be demanding that every single player in our squad is prepared to match the work rate of their players who are all full internationals and yet still prepared to put everything in to the performance.

Yesterday's game could end up being a blessing in disguise if we take the right things from it. We should also be thankful that there are very few clubs in the league who could match the tactics that Tottenham deployed, so other clubs will not really have been able to learn from that and exploit our same weaknesses in future games.
User avatar
smarthammer
Posts: 789
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:52 pm
Location: Top Six with an eye for higher

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by smarthammer »

Well beaten yesterday and a poor performance all-round excepting Lanzini who continues to shine regardless of the confusion around him.

Spurs have great energy and directness which we didn’t/couldn’t match and sloppy (lazy) defensive play handed them an initiative they hardly needed to beat us.

Back 4 shambles, midfield over-run and by default few meaningful attempts on goal or testing the keeper. Surely Payet’s injury doesn't stop a whole team playing?

Nobles ban makes decisions for Bilic who so far has been loyal with his system but time to shake it up a bit and give others a chance against the respect the point thug-ball from Pulis up next.
bobcar
Posts: 2800
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 2:00 pm

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by bobcar »

Kermit wrote: That said we were poor and, for me, it is becoming apparent that whilst Jenkinson and Cresswell are decent when going forward neither are good defenders, which surely is their main function in what is a back 4 set up.
But they weren't as bad last year or more likely less exposed. We have a more attacking attitude now (good) but part of that is that the full backs are more exposed than they were.
User avatar
a86
Posts: 930
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:19 pm

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by a86 »

did spurs have better quality? no
did spurs have a stronger squad? no
did spurs work hard? yes
did spurs close down our players? yes
did spurs play with a high tempo? yes

The only reason we lost is because Pocchetino got more out of his players than Bilic did of ours. We didn't give 100% and a few bust ups (Noble, Reid, Sakho) doesn't mean they give passion, they flared up because the spuds got the better of us. Only player I saw give his all was Kouyate and we looked most promising with him attacking. can't fault Adrian, if it wasn't for him we would of easily let in 8 or 9 goals. embarrassing performance and quite possibly the worst I've ever seen from a west ham side live on the telly (FA cup 5-0 v Nottingham forest doesn't count) since we got beat 4-0 against Newcastle away the year we went down with Roeder in charge. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 196599.stm

I would be tempted to start playing Song with Obiang infront of the back four as PO is more of a tackling player and AS is a distributor. I would push Kouyate up in Payet's position and let Lanzini go back out wide. Carroll needs to be dropped and I would start Jelavic if Sakho is not fit, the guy hasn't started a game for us and needs time to prove himself. can't judge him as a 15 min cameo. Ogbonna needs to come back in with Reid and Tomkins to go back to RB. Ogbonna is class, needs to be the first choice.

Fair Play to the Tottenham players but most importantly fair play to the manager.
If they play like that every week they will win the league.... and my stomach just churned saying that.
User avatar
Puff Daddy
Gone for a Burton
Posts: 42250
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:08 pm
Location: Westham Way
Has liked: 248 likes
Total likes: 1160 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Puff Daddy »

From the first whistle, it was noticeable how much time and space we afforded to Spurs, allowing them to dictate play and build up from the back. We stood off them, inviting them to attack with only Andy Carroll up front all on his own. Not one of our players pressed and what pressing there was, was done solely by Andy, who was forged to plough a lone furrow up front, but he was often not within 10 yards of the Spurs back four, whilst they sprayed the ball around between themselves. Compare that with how Liverpool played at The Etihad on Saturday evening, when not two, but often three Liverpool players closed down City's players in their own half of the field as they went hunting in packs, not allowing them time or space forcing City's players into enforced errors and making life very difficult for them This is not a criticism of our players, more an observation of what I saw
Modern
Posts: 1360
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:46 pm
Location: in the away end...
Has liked: 10 likes
Total likes: 66 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Modern »

I think Bilic got his tactics wrong, but of course it's easy to say that with hindsight.

In the 0-3 with Ravel looking amazing Big Sam got the better of us by packing the midfield and using a false 9.

If I remember correctly last season you were well on top until SA took off noble and got Cole on playing two up top again.

I think going with the two strikers while brave opened the field up for Spurs in a way that playing Koyatte, Noble and Song or Obiang in a three never would have done.

Of Course if Carroll heads in one of those early corners everything is different. He clearly tried to take advantage of the idea Spurs are weak in the air not a bad idea but I doubt he'd give up a body in midfield again if he had the chance to play the game a second time.
ryanrc

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by ryanrc »

a86, I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but Pochettino has had a lot more time and resources to build his squad than Bilic has. Last year they got turned over by the same margin by Stoke as well as facing some heavy losses to the big boys, and that's in spite of being very well run and investing heavily over the past 10 years (while we've been bouncing around). Bilic has barely even started to build his side and if you look at his stats at Besiktas and Croatia, his goal ratio is a lot better than so far at our gaff. He's produced some of the best results (and performances) we've seen and some of the worst. But on balance, I think he's done very well and I think he'll get it right, it will just take time.
User avatar
westhamerica
Posts: 7532
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: waxed vaxxed coastal elite america
Has liked: 56 likes
Total likes: 43 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by westhamerica »

a86 wrote:did spurs have better quality? no
did spurs have a stronger squad? no
Eriksen, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Dembele, Lloris and possibly Kane are all far superior to anyone that was in our 11, and there are arguments to made for everyone else bar Danny Rose.

But yeah, they tried really hard, that was it.
ryanrc

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by ryanrc »

westhamerica wrote:
But yeah, they tried really hard, that was it.
To be fair, that is a factor too. Their fitness levels are easily the best in the league and they've been putting in the hours to be able to play that style of game. If we wanted to press as high as they do, we probably couldn't at the minute because they are much, much fitter than us.
User avatar
Kermit
Posts: 2719
Joined: Mon May 21, 2007 7:48 pm
Location: Hertfordshire
Has liked: 94 likes
Total likes: 321 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Kermit »

Kermit wrote:That said we were poor and, for me, it is becoming apparent that whilst Jenkinson and Cresswell are decent when going forward neither are good defenders, which surely is their main function in what is a back 4 set up.
bobcar wrote:But they weren't as bad last year or more likely less exposed. We have a more attacking attitude now (good) but part of that is that the full backs are more exposed than they were.
You're right of course. Although I thought Sakho did his share of defensive duties yesterday, although Moses wasn't seen too often manning the barricades down Cresswell's side.
User avatar
westhamerica
Posts: 7532
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:52 pm
Location: waxed vaxxed coastal elite america
Has liked: 56 likes
Total likes: 43 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by westhamerica »

ryanrc wrote:To be fair, that is a factor too. Their fitness levels are easily the best in the league and they've been putting in the hours to be able to play that style of game. If we wanted to press as high as they do, we probably couldn't at the minute because they are much, much fitter than us.
They were more technical, passed the ball well, and kept it in long spells. In terms of distance covered, we are in the top 5 in the league just a bit behind them. They tired us out physically and mentally with their game plan and ability, not with their superior fitness levels and trying really hard.
User avatar
Sarfend Hammer
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:45 pm
Total likes: 2 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Sarfend Hammer »

Boleyn Bill wrote:I doubt that Bilic was paying too much attention to your feelings when making his after match comments. Personally I hope that Bilic uses Spurs as an example to our players going forward. .
I doubt Bilic will be paying much attention to what you personally hope when he is instructing his team. (sorry couldn't resist). My comment was less about what he says to the team but more about what he says to the fans.
User avatar
Believer
Posts: 9150
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:35 pm
Has liked: 1389 likes
Total likes: 735 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Believer »

In our big wins this season away from home we have played with a proper holding midfielder. We didn't yesterday. Massive difference. That along with it appearing that the heads dropped when we went a goal down. Had Kouyate's header gone in instead of hitting the bar it would have been a totally different game.
I genuinely think that our players believe they will win any game that they go in front but should they go behind they freeze as if they don't know what to do.
TSmitty
Posts: 332
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:48 pm
Total likes: 2 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by TSmitty »

I still believe The Slav will do the job for us this season. I've had more smiles so far than in the last 2 seasons combined.
This wasn't one of our finer moments but it's not like we don't have previous for going from lean & mean to flabby all over the shop in the space of a week.

Carroll's got to go or at least be brought on for a bit, late in the game, when he might do some good.
He may be good in the box at set pieces or with good crosses coming in but we don't seem to be crossing
as it's not in the plan and we took short corners once or twice. So what's the point of him being there.
We'll never get the money back and we could definitely lose the wage bill.

Other than that lets hope we get Antonio in to see what he can do and with Song coming back we can look to a better midfield if he's in the mood.

So onward and upward, even if we end up mid table it will have been much more fun getting there.
Modern
Posts: 1360
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:46 pm
Location: in the away end...
Has liked: 10 likes
Total likes: 66 likes

Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Modern »

Just read Sullivan's statement, real class thing to do that I take my hat off to him.

Didnt have to say anything nice about Levy there but did anyway. Tells us maybe something about the reasons certain deals that didn't get completed this summer too. Spurs couldn't have been too difficult to deal with if he's willing to say that.
Post Reply