Tottenham 4-1 West Ham Utd (22/11/15)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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Knighter10WHU
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Knighter10WHU »

sutts07 wrote:
Not sure what you saw from Moses... I think he has been terrible for us.
Agree with this Moses was terrible yesterday.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by wivenhoetim »

..Just thought we were bullied throughout. They wanted it more. Its not luck that all second/third balls drop to the same team, they just wanted it more. I thought Dembele bossed a very good midfield that out run and out numbered us. Carroll has come in for some stick but not strictly deserved, but boy it did seem to highlight a pretty one dimensional game plan from Bilic. I was amazed the changes weren't made at half time or even sooner, the writing was well and truly on the wall after 30 minutes. Adrian had a decent outing again,as did Kouyate and Sakho. I guess we have to believe that we cant be that bad again.....can we?
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by jaybs »

What a sad day all round, first when rumours started to circulate about stabbings, then a second half which seemed to go on forever and I just wanted to end, not helped by the Glory Chanting from the opposition constantly, our Bubbles definitely Burst and at that club of all clubs.

We just did not compete, it was just a little compensation to see the way Manuel took the one goal, a Joy!

It is hard to blame any one player, but Carroll is simply not Good Enough, he has to be replaced in January, we can't afford to gamble with him as a bench player any longer and his salary Can't be Justified.

Frightening to consider if we don't beat WBA we could be down to 12th!

We have to have some Faith - COYI
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Gabers »

We got totally overrun yesterday. Was a tough pill to swallow. Noble and Tomkins cannot complain when they get dropped and Jenkinson is very lucky that we are limited at right back.

Adrian must save that 3rd goal but other than that we got beat and got what we deserved

Carroll needs to find a way to get into these games as the style changes with him in the team BUT I am not seeing it pumped long so I cannot quite put my finger on it

Sakho isn't as effective out wide and Kouyate (sp) got lost in the middle as Noble was so slow to get close and Spurs midfield just bossed us.

Id be very surprised if we do not see Ogbonna, Song and Zarate start next week with Carroll, Noble and Tomkins benched

for crying out loud get Antonio onto the pitch he has a point to prove and will look more interested than what Moses did!
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Officer Dibble »

Puzzled by some of the reaction on here.

Yesterday we were beaten by a very good Spurs team, they will be well in the mix for the top 4 this season.

We weren't as bad as some people are making out, yes individual mistakes were punished, and, personally, I think our formation was wrong, but this isn't the end of our season with Payet being injured. I think Bilic will use yesterday to reassess the structure of the team.

We are still a decent team, not as good as some people thought, but nowhere near as bad as some people think.

What we do have is the old West Ham back, the one I grew up with in the 70's, 80's and 90's. From World Beaters to terrible in one week. :crest:
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by claretandblue82 »

Disappointed with yesterday. Don't think Carroll should be a first choice anymore, def an impact sub. But what disappoints me most is that Bilic isn't making the most of his squad it just seems to be the same players every week. I was hoping that he would shake it up a bit and everyone would be on their toes and giving their best because they knew they would lose their place if they weren't performing to their best.

He has to make some changes next week following Sunday's performance. We also need some full back cover because Jenks and Cresswell need to know they are guaranteed a starting place each week.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by w4hammer »

As expected I had an 8.30 am call from the bloke I work with, who happens to be a **d

Imagine how that went.

Once again individual errors cost us goals - first was a fluke, but the 2nd and third were awful goals to concede


Easy to say now but the whole team set-up was wrong- Sakho on the wing? we were outnumbered in midfield and carroll was a waste of a shirt. Why on earth he keeps giving forrest gump aka jelovic a run-out is beyond me..Is Obiang fit? we always look better when he's on the pitch.

Just feels like the same old **** we've been seeing for years, silly old me thought we'd turned a corner..
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by DDHammer »

Officer Dibble wrote: We weren't as bad as some people are making out, yes individual mistakes were punished, and, personally, I think our formation was wrong, but this isn't the end of our season with Payet being injured. I think Bilic will use yesterday to reassess the structure of the team.
I think the issue is this wasn't the first time this season we've seen our defense collapse. It's happened 3 or 4 times in the same manner where teams a lot worse than Tottenham have blown us away.
Last edited by DDHammer on Mon Nov 23, 2015 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Georgee Paris »

I personally didn't think Spurs looked that great. Granted we were absolutely rubbish but they just looked a tidy unit. Functional even. I'm sure had we had Payet playing it would have been a whole different scenario. Spurs certainly didn't look that much better than Watford.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Officer Dibble »

DDHammer wrote:
I think the issue is this wasn't the first time this season we've seen our defense collapse. It's happened 3 or 4 times in the same manner where teams a lot worse than Tottenham have blown us away.
But this is the type of team we wanted after BFS reign I thought :wink:

As I said, this is no different to the West Ham I have always been used to, flatter to deceive.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Boleyn Bill »

Well that certainly wasn’t the most pleasant way for me to spend my Sunday afternoon and evening. I had to witness it all in person from the upper tier at White Hart Lane (I was one of the few that stayed until the end and actually saw Lanzini’s excellent goal) I think most of my fellow Irons up there had left even before Spurs got their 4th.

A really bad day at the office for us for sure, but I think yesterday we came up against the best team we have played so far this season. Pochettino has them very well organised from Lloris all the way through to Kane, but as well as having organisation and incredible work rate, Spurs also have a lot of quality in that team, they play good football at pace and that is hard to defend against.

I really don’t get some of the comments on here about Spurs being an average team, I think that is just sour grapes, I don’t think there is a single average player in their team and the likes of Kane, Eriksen, Son, Dembele and probably their keeper and 2 centre halves are true top class players, then they cap it off by actually playing as a team as opposed to a collection of talented individuals. It is clear that all of their players have bought into their coaches philosophy.

Most of ours simply didn’t have the technique, confidence or composure to be able to cope with the way that Spurs hunted in packs, conversely when Spurs had the ball they seemed to always manage to make space to receive a pass and their players had the skill to hold on to the ball and hold off our challenges if they didn’t have an immediate pass on.

We competed pretty well for the first 15 minutes or so without troubling Spurs defensively, but they then seemed to step up a gear, my impression from the upper tier was that Spurs pushed their team forward 10 yards or so and intensified their pressing, as a result of which we just couldn’t keep the ball so either had to play dangerous passes in our own half or go long but with a big gap between our midfield and Carroll which made it easy for their defence.

For us rather worryingly considering the score I thought that Adrian had a pretty good game. I was disappointed in his efforts to save Spurs’ 3rd goal at the time, but watching it back last night on MoTD, the shot seemed to move and dip late on him.

Lanzini was easily the pick of the bunch for us, he was the only West Ham player with the skill to be able to retain possession despite Tottenham’s pressing and it was a piece of individual brilliance that earned him his goal (I thought it must’ve been the side netting instead of a goal at first). Something I did notice however is that Spurs’ equivalent player (Son) seemed to work harder for the team when not in possession than Lanzini did for us. There were a few occasions when Walker went forward and Lanzini didn’t want to track him which I think Bilic needs to put right.

I actually didn’t think Carroll was that bad either. He was feeding off scraps, but managed to win most of the long balls that came his way. The problem was that Spurs centre half (I think it was Alderweireld) was content to let this happen and just dropped off and made sure he picked up the flick on. For those moaning about Carroll not being good enough, I don’t think yesterday was a day where you could judge him at all. If we’d had Alan Shearer at his peak up front for us yesterday the result would’ve been exactly the same. We simply didn’t give him any service at all.

While our two fullbacks were poor yesterday, the centre halves didn’t cover themselves with glory and Sakho did a perfectly passable impression of the invisible man, Noble got the award for the worst player on the pitch, he was completely outclassed and it wasn’t through lack of effort, he just looked slow and lacking in technique compared to the opposition. There have been several posts on here over the past few weeks wondering why Alli had got into the England squad instead of Noble, yesterday answered that question emphatically. At only 19 years old Alli managed to make Noble look like a pub player. I think Spurs have some player on their hands there with him, in many ways he reminds me of a young Steve Gerrard breaking into the Liverpool team.

Jumby – I read your comment about the way we handled Kane last season compared to this season. I think the difference was that last season there was a bigger gap between Spurs midfield and Kane, this allowed us the freedom of getting tight on him and also allowed our centre halves to track him when he drifted wide. This season Spurs seemed to be 10 yards higher up the pitch and more importantly they got Alli, Eriksen and Son close to Kane, which meant our centre halves couldn’t get tight to Kane for fear of leaving big holes for those players to exploit. Watching Harry Kane yesterday you can see that he is the real deal. His movement is constant and he always seems to make the right run off the ball, he plays like a player who has already got several years of experience despite only having played one PL season before this one. (who was that idiot in the Harry Kane thread running in the last couple of weeks who had to bloody jinx us yesterday?)

Now on to the trouble: I am really sad to hear about the bloke who was stabbed, I hope he makes a speedy recovery and I also hope that he doesn’t let whichever moron did it deter him from attending future football matches. Fingers crossed they catch whoever did it and the authorities deal with him accordingly. There seemed to be a nasty atmosphere around the ground in general yesterday, Spurs away is never the most welcoming of places, but yesterday was a day when you really needed your wits about you. While at the ground I overheard a conversation that some of our morons (my word, not the one they used) ‘took’ one of their pubs (the Bricklayers Arms I believe?) I’m assuming it must’ve been a bunch of 16 year olds going through puberty a bit late as surely that sort of thing should be above grown men?

The policing yesterday also seemed both heavy handed and poor in equal measures, I saw various fights breaking out while on the way to the ground and I also noticed that a few of ours coming into the ground had some rather fresh looking war wounds on their faces.

Hopefully we can have our revenge over Spurs on the pitch under the lights at the Boleyn later this season, hopefully that is the only place that ‘revenge’ takes place (although I won’t hold my breath for that when it comes to Spurs and ourselves).
Last edited by Boleyn Bill on Mon Nov 23, 2015 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Mexico29 »

Yesterday showed why our English players are not in the national squad. Nobel was bossed by Ali, Dier and Dembele, not through want of trying, just couldn't compete, he knew this as well, hence the booking. Two full back, never been too big a fan of Jenkinson but dear god does that bloke follow the ball. Has no idea where his man is, made Walker (whom is a vile right back) look world class in comparison. Cresswell has struggled so far this season but i think he is just low on confidence, trying too hard to impress, he just needs to work on his positioning, cover across a bit more. Carroll had no one near him, Lanzini was all over the pitch, Sakho and Moses far too wide, should have played closer to Carroll and play through the big man instead of trying to only hit him from out wide.

Not a good day at all, fingers crossed Billic can erase that result with more of what we have seen before.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Oldun »

Up to yesterday,12 games into the season the only difference between the clubs was goal difference.
After the game we seemed a million miles from them,how does that work out,I have always thought that we was at best a 7th-12th club ,even with Payet fit but yesterday and against Watford we could not even seem to do the basics correctly.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Nesticles »

We were very poor, especially defensively. Spurs played well and took full advantage of this

I get the decision to start with Carroll and Sakho, Spurs have had trouble dealing with set pieces and we hoped to capitalise on this. That planned backfired when we couldn't get a cross to beat the first man.

We were so poor at the back we were fortunate it was no more than 4.

Hoping to see a reaction against West Brom this weekend.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by The Sherriff »

Absolute schoolboy error for Jenks on the 1st … basic stuff. I’m not his biggest fan but that was piss poor.

The 2nd could have been avoided if we hadn’t of backed off so much when they were attacking in the build-up which lead to the corner. Just stand your ground … we back peddled into our own area. Needless – should never have got that far.

As for the 3rd ….. we were literally walking up the pitch, by the time Adrian released it we should been 10-15m higher. It looked like all 4 defenders hadn’t cleared our own area.

All 3 were avoidable, sloppy goals to give away.

Those muggy c**** only started singing after the 3rd went in,

Felt the atmosphere was muted which was reflected in a poor performance. No complaints though, we just didn’t turn up. Needed another body in midfield, felt the change took too long.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Absolutely Hammered! »

Spurs were faster, stronger and slicker in all departments yesterday. Their one touch link up play when they broke forwards was fast and effective and we got punished. Spurs are a team of athletes and I feared for Nobes that this game would be too fast for him and was right. Granted we missed Payet yesterday but I'm not sure the result would have been much different. They showed up and we didn't. I'm sure we'll have our revenge at our gaff.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Knighter10WHU »

I think a big problem for us this season is how poorly our full backs are playing, Jenkinson is the obvious one, but Cresswell is having a poor season so far also. It really highlights the need for a RB in January.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by ryanrc »

I'm still positive. Spurs are a very good side and they have dicked on better teams than us this season. However, I really can see us catching up with them. We are moving in the right direction and doing the right things. We have bought some quality over the last couple of years and we have a young team that is still gelling to a new manager. We have quality prospects coming through with Oxford, Samuelsen, Cullen and more and I think we'll add a couple of top drawer players in the summer who fit the manager's mould.

As much as I despise their fans, I admire how Spurs have been run over the last 10 years or so and I think we're following a similar path. I would not be at all surprised to see us mixing it with the big boys like they are in a couple of years, but for now I'll be happy to see us carrying on playing attractive football and growing as a team. I think we'll finish between 7th and 10th this year and we can't complain with that. We're still in for a great season and the following one will be even better.

All guns blazing against Pulis next weekend boys :scarfer:
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by brownout »

Boleyn Bill wrote:Well that certainly wasn’t the most pleasant way for me to spend my Sunday afternoon and evening. I had to witness it all in person from the upper tier at White Hart Lane (I was one of the few that stayed until the end and actually saw Lanzini’s excellent goal) I think most of my fellow Irons up there had left even before Spurs got their 4th.
).
We too stayed to the end in the upper tier. Paid £54 and weren't going to leave early - at least we saw a good goal from Lanzini.

I hope you weren't the idiot who kicked the back out of his seat at the final whistle - right in front of a CCTV camera.
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Re: Tottenham v West Ham Utd : Match Thread

Post by Sarfend Hammer »

We win with solid defending and strong counter attack. This falls apart with poor defending particularly when it causes us to fall behind. This was evident yesterday, Jenkinson was at fault for allowing Kane to turn him. From that point on, we attempt to carry the game to them which we have not been able to do with any team this season. Space is opened up for the opposition, mistakes creep into our game and we lose discipline.

A lot of people are criticising Andy Carroll but Bilic knows exactly what he is getting by putting him out there. He was ineffective but so were Sakho, Moses and Lanzini for most of the game. It is clearly down to the managers tactics and team setup. I believe Bilic is trying to come up with other ways to win than the single strategy described above. With Carroll's prowess in the air and his ability to physically impose himself on the opposition he is hoping that will provide opportunities for Sakho to come in to the game. It isn't working because Carroll hasn't imposed himself and doesn't have the speed to worry defenders.

So Bilic has tried this and failed, now must revert to Plan A. Shore up the defence by bringing back Ogbonna, replace Jenkinson with Tomkins and drop Carroll for Zarate. With Noble suspended we will get to see what Song and Kouyate can do. At some point I would like to see what Michael Antonio could add.

Tottenham were only as good as we allowed them to be. Bilic should have been less effusive in his praise because I hate them with a passion.
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