Manchester City 3-1 West Ham Utd (28/08/16)

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the pink palermo
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by the pink palermo »

bubbles1966 wrote:We'll beat them at ours.
I think we may have a chance of doing so .

Overall today, over the 90, we were poor , and for 45 minutes City were superb .On song they are double mustard .However there was a period in the 2nd half, once Lanzini had come on, that we looked demonstrably better than we had in the first 45 .

It's not inconceivable that we could have nicked a point there today, and two of the goals we conceded were soft. Having said that my predicted scoreline of 6-1 would not have flattered them , and I'm starting to think this may be a season too far for Ginge .For them, Silva is a joy to watch , a superb player .

My main short term concern is quite how much faith Bilic has put in Tore and to what extent he is now behoven to him , taking him off when he did was the right call but I wouldn't be surprised if the Chairman is starting to question Slavens judgement .

A good entertaining game though and enough positives in the 2nd half to give cause for optimism .
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by traxop »

Nick_ wrote:Anyone who thinks Bilic can't see the issues with Antonio at right-back must have an incredibly low opinion of him. He's aware that Antonio is a defensively limited player, but in the absence of a top-class right-back it's possible that it's worth the risk of playing him in order to give us an extra attacking edge, especially if the rest of the defensive unit are fairly solid.

I can see the logic in this, even if it hasn't worked out and I wish it would stop. But the gamble is on Antonio at right-back giving us a net-positive contribution end-to-end that Byram wouldn't (plus that would create selection issues further up the pitch).
Yes I can see the logic. That's the same conclusion I've arrived at as well. When everyone is fit, he'll have a hard time occupying any of the wing spots.

Today's game just shows how dangerous it is to lose/not to have possession against a team like Man. City. We were left chasing shadows every time we lost possession and between the likes of Tore, Antonio and Valencia(whom did quite well today I thought), we definitely like to cough up possession in the worst of positions.

I reckon once everyone is fit, the ability of our midfielders in Lanzini, Payet and Feghouli to keep possession in the middle will allow us to use Antonio exclusively as an overlapping runner, much like how Payet always stands off on the edge of their box waiting for Cresswell to overlap(funnily enough that was what De Bruyne and Silva did to us all day today - that through-ball behind and out wide for the cutback).

Payet and Feghouli can play the facilitator role to Cresswell and Antonio the same way De Bruyne and Silva did today. Our attack will look a lot more fluid and potent once we can play with some width.

Antonio, for his part, will need to curb his instincts to initiate the attack. Rather than trying to bulldoze pass 2-3 banks of set defensive lines from deep, he just needs to pass out to Noble/Lanzini to set up our midfield.

He needs to get into those positions where he can receive the ball and have only one more man to beat. All the midfielders bought in can all pick a pass, so if Antonio can improve his reading of the play - which is an underrated aspect of Cresswell's game. Cresswell just seems to know when to join an attack - he should be the recipient of some passes in positions where he can do the most damage.
Last edited by traxop on Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by JibHammer »

JibHammer wrote:PS, I think Calleri might come good.
mushy wrote:Any particular reason for this thought Jib?
I have seen little so far.
He runs off the ball very well, can get in behind, and has great awareness, brought others into play today.

Think he needs a goal and he'll settle.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by stu1 »

Antonio does not have the defensive awareness to play right back. I don't see how that can even be questioned, in fact I don't even see that being questioned by anyone.

Instead I see people arguing that he is playing right back so he can still make our starting 11 when our other attacking players return.

This is madness. You don't play a player right back, who you know can't defend just because he might help you in attack when you've got all your attacking midfielders back.

To set up your team with such an obvious weakness, is quite frankly ridiculous and it's costing us points every week.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Peaches »

Citeh would have turned over anyone the way they played in the first half, especially the first half an hour.
We desperately need the international break. Tore looks well short of match fitness, and Kouyate looked a shadow of his former self.

We all know Antonio is not a full back, but that should not ide the fact tt our right side was seed because Tore was often not covering his man and Citeh were offered an extra player over on that side, and Coolins was caught ball watching a couple of times' and our midfield failed to account for runs from DeBruyne, Sterling and Fernandinho several times.
by ram and Lanzini both changed things when they came on and Antonio showed again why he should star at RW.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by ironfireman »

The first half was terrible, city were rampant and we had absolutely no answers, and to be fair they should of gone in at the break at least 3 or 4 up!

But... lets be realistic, city are gonna smash plenty of teams this season, they were absolute class in the 1st half and i feared everytime they poured forward. We had no answers and were simply outclassed! But against a team of their value and quality not many teams would of had answers either.

2nd half Billic proved he still has the dressing room! He obviously gave them all a dressing down and they responded, we started playing as a team and worked much harder.

Antonio! He lacks finesse, sometimes decision making and will never be a skillful intricate player, but he poses a threat and has alot of spirit and has a knack of getting himself in the right place at the right time and you cant teach that!

Calleri, for me has shown nothing to suggest he is a good sttiker! However he does look a very good footballer who has strength, a good touch and i think will possibly be a very welcome signing.

Arthur i like more and more and his touch is spot on! Prone to mistakes and is always gonna be a booking waiting to happen, but fair play he kept alot of self control to avoid getting a red and looked good going forward.

Fletcher is a player who will grow and grow and for his age is an exciting prospect.

All in all despite a 3-1 defeat, im alot more positive now ive seen we can play terrible but are able to turn it around. With a full squad and once weve settled into the season i can see us growing and growing! Still too early for us to be competing with the big guns but we are certainly heading in the right direction
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Beedub »

What to do when Creswell is fit

Only one bloke can play left back and Masuaku has arguably our shining light in the first three games.

It's great to have competition for spots but hardly see both sitting extended lengths on the bench without being disgruntled

Could we look to transform one of them into a left mid position??
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Stepney »

Just got home. My take on things... Ginger Pele was superb (particularly first half). Fletcher has a great attitude but unfortunately didn't get much service. Valencia first half was just strolling around (as per) but Bilic obviously stuck a rocket up his arse at half time because first 15 minutes of the second he was running around like a man possessed! Lanzini looked class when he came on, a cut above the rest. Couple of good stops from Adrian to keep the scoreline respectable. Ref was a bit of a tosser and it felt like Thursday night again (although not quite as bad).

Despite losing I was pretty pleased during most of the second half. After we scored there was a fantastic feeling in the stands for a while that we'd got our West Ham back. I feel very confident that when we get all of our best players back we will be performing like we did last year. It's coming. You can see it. We just have to be patient. At the end of the day we were playing a very slick Man City side at home so it was never going to be easy. But I can honestly say that for brief spells of that second half we looked every bit as good as they did and had them rattled a couple of times. With our best team out I still reckon we will take it to anyone, home or away.

Onwards and Upwards :crest:
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by bishbosh »

2-1 going into stoppage time against a team playing as well as City and us without an experienced striker, no Payet, Ayew, Carroll and Lanzini only fit for 30 mins...id have took that at kick off...were never likely to get anything today given our situation but a touch of luck or Aguero getting sent off like he should have done and we might have just have come away with something wherever it would have been deserved or not.

3 at the back, away at Man City, when they could have had very little time to work on that shape given we played on Thurs seemed like madness when the teams got named and they were all over the place for the first half hour.

Michail Antonio's last 5 PL games
v Man Utd - starts at RB, pushed forward late on...SCORES
v Stoke - starts RW...SCORES
v Chelsea - starts RB...don't even need to say
v Bournemouth - starts LW, finally gets put RW for most of 2nd half...SCORES
v Man City - starts RWB, gets moved to RW...SCORES

I fail to see how having any other position other than RW has any logic to it whatsoever. Any team in the PL would take a player with a clear impact such as Antonio's in a flash. It's why he's in the England squad. Big Sam knows his numbers.

And how many times did Reid let the ball bounce today? Really surprises me when people say he's our best CB. Let's get back to 4-2-3-1 and let Kouyate run all over midfield, get Payet and Lanzini fit and a finisher up front and we really are a match for anyone this season.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Beavis Danzig »

calleri reminds me of when usually prolific strikers can't find the net for love nor money, despite their built in striker's instinct constantly finding opportunities for them.

usually it's temporary. could just be that he couldn't finish a happy meal though.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Simply Moore »

Just seen the Aguero incident, if the ref hasn't seen that, he has to get a ban surely? Granted I may be biased but I've watched it a few times and he has his feet planted so he's not jumping to attempt to head the ball he can feel where Reid is so there's now argument that he didn't know here he was he he as looking at he ball, he just swings an elbow out at head height. Naughty little c***t
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by cockney farmer »

A few positives from second half performance , first half they ripped us a new one and should have had 4, Silva a joy to watch . Why doesn't Slaven trust Byram ? , DG needs to invest in the GMP to advise about policing games , thought they were brilliant and well humourous , until the "mars bar " incident in middle tier :D , sniffer dof search was also reassuring although suspect it was for Class A rather than Semtex , overall day out good the Soul gig in Printworks was worth the journey.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Mega Ron »

I don't think Cresswell needs to lose much sleep.

His understudy is OK but not in his class.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Mega Ron »

Beavis Danzig wrote:calleri reminds me of when usually prolific strikers can't find the net for love nor money, despite their built in striker's instinct constantly finding opportunities for them.

usually it's temporary. could just be that he couldn't finish a happy meal though.
Tevez was like it for most of a season for us.

Can we afford to give him time?
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by Rightback »

I don't see any need to panic.

In the corresponding fixtures last season we had 4 points. This season 3. Anything other than full strength sides should expect to struggle away to Chelsea and Man City. The fact that both defeats were relatively narrow and the Chelsea result could have been very different, should give us enormous optimism for what might be possible when we have a full compliment.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by steps »

I'm not a fan of retrospective bans / punishment, I'd rather have the tools available so refs can have replays available to deal with incidents in play. But I see over on Blue Moon they're bleating on about Aguero not making any contact with Reid's mush, what a load of cobblers.

You can tell the intent was there, Aguero had his fist clenched as he swung his elbow back, he also had a menacing look on his face. I'm not saying Aguero's a dirty player but it's just *another* decision that hasnt gone our way. Last season our whole campaign was littered with them to the extent that the Daily Fail / Express etc were writing articles on how many points we'd been robbed of by bad refereeing decisions.

Man City played us off the park in the first half, I make no bones about that. But if you go back to the Chelsea match Costa should of seen red for that studding of Adrian's shin and yesterday the ref 'conveniently' didn't see anything.

Looks like normal service has resumed with refs' attitudes towards clubs bar the top 3 or 4 doesn't it .
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by bristolhammerfc »

We had the worst first half of football that I can remember for two seasons.

Adrian has got to stop the rushes of blood. He made some good interceptions but his distribution and communication needs improving.

Antonio was at fault for the first goal. He was on the left wing at one point when he was supposed to be right wing back and spent too much time shoulder to shoulder with Collins allowing them to attack down the right at will. He lost sight of his player time after time. Second half he did what he does best.

Collins is a problem. Defensivley he is good. A player who reads the game, puts his body on the line and marshalls the back line. His distribution of the ball causes us massive problems whether its a short misplaced pass or the usual safety first hoof to no one in particular. I have said on here before, we need a commanding centre back brought in and my view hasn't changed.

Reid has been poor this season until the second half. Ironically until he got the elbow, he was our best player at that point of the game. Poor in the first half, standing watching at times, he was a catalyst for the improvement in the second.

Ogbonna looked lost in a back three. Out of position and unsure where to be, he was a shadow of the player he can be. Played better once Byram came on but needs more game time.

Byram was the game changer. Played his socks off. Tackled well and was intelligent going forward. A little high up the pitch at times when they countered but made a massive difference.

Masuaku is a player I like. Passionate and doesn't get bullied. A good passer of the ball and kept the score down on his own in the first half.

Noble tried to hard in the first half, not helped by Tore's allergy to coming back past the half way line and Kouyate's absence from the game. Settled into the player we know he is at his best in the second. Silly booking from a ref that was carding everything.

Kouyate was awful for this game. Unsure of his position and lost the player for the second goal. Too often wandering around looking lost. Didn't put his foot in when it was needed and let his team down.

Tore is a player I don't want to see starting. I trust the manager, but I just don't get what he brings. Won't defend unless its a half hearted swipe of the foot and has, so far had poor passing and crossing. Deserved to be hauled off.

Fletcher worked hard but is still raw. Needs to work on his positioning a bit, but one player who can hold his head high for both halves.

Valencia is not a premiership player.

Lanzini was the link between midfield and the front that we had been lacking. A little off the pace but thank god he is on his way back.

Calleri did something we had been lacking. He won the ball in the air in the final third. Chased down balls and tried to make things happen. I was pleasantly surprised.

Slaven has got to start improving from the start. We wont get away with it like we did last year, outscoring teams in the second half. When he has the players back fit their will be no hiding place. We want to be pushing for 10th to 8th, we are in danger on current form of being this years Swansea.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by RayleighHammer23 »

Great to see Lanzini back, I don't think he was off the pace, the touch and movement was there, especially with Antonio. At one stage he worked the ball beautifully to Noble who really just needed to play it back to him and it would have ended 3:2. We will be a complely different team when him back.

As great as it was to see Lanzini, Tore once again has proven to be an absolute mistake. I really hope we can send him back to Turkey at the end of the season. Surely there's a loop hole. They can't all be diamonds in the rough can they.

Special shout out to the City fans, always so welcoming and as we walked back to our car I lost count of the amount of fans that wished us a safe journey home.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by jaybs »

The first half performance was abysmal, but I worried once the line up was first announced? City seemed as if they had half a dozen more players than we did, the second half we did get better and a good job as I worried what the score line could become, some players gave their all, still some concerns about the new players. Made up for Antonio with the goal he has all round determination be it with his feet or his head. I do think the injury to Reid was a sending off incident, but to claim he saw nothing and the same with the happy flag waver on that side is a joke, in fact I felt the referee started off well and controlled the box well, but then I think he faded as the match went on and made some errors?

The last goal they scored spoilt what would have been an acceptable score line, just hope we learn from it.

Full credit to each and every one of our supporters we out sung their fans and put them to shame, we have the team everything we could.
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Re: Manchester City vs West Ham Utd : match thread

Post by claret parrot »

Beavis Danzig wrote:i don't really want to see him banned as it does **** all good for us, while our rivals rub their hands in glee.

it's like having your wife run over by a drunk driver and having any compensation go to the bloke she was getting a nobbing from on the side.
Are you sure Beavis that you weren't in collision er, I mean collusion with the drunk driver in order to be rid of your errant wife?

Seriously though I thought Kalashnikov's idea was a good one (page 39) that the ban or part of the ban, should be held over pending the next match against the same opponent.

Obviously if there hasn't been a meeting for say eighteen months then the unserved portion of the ban should be served against the next opponent(s) whoever they may be.

Of course this would be a far too fair and sensible idea to merit consideration by the football authorities.
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