You're talking about the complete final part of the play there though. Look more into what happened in the passages of play prior to the final strike of the ball. How the ball actually made it's way into the box in the first place, that's what needs addressing. The lack of presence we had in the centre of the pitch between the back four and our midfield, allowing Watford all the freedom in the world to come at us and cause chance after chance.fjthegrey wrote:Just looking at the goals alone, I'm not so concerned. They aren't systemic errors in my opinion.
First goal, lucky. 2 deflections.
Second goal, major defensive **** up. Not a common occurrence.
Third goal, top class finish. Sometimes you've just got to hold your hands up.
Fourth goal, goalkeeping **** up. Not a common occurrence.
Obviously we are surrendering too many chances and we can't continue to make such bad errors, but it wouldn't take a lot to fix the goals we conceded on Saturday.
West Ham Utd 2-4 Watford (10/09/16)
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Yeah I agree with that too.
I don't think we can wait 2 years to see if Byram develops. The PL can no longer be a finishing school as such. There were a couple of times on Sat where he was so bad it was not acceptable.
The back 4 needs to be solid and in form/tandem for Collins to be able to fit in and with Byram on the right that isn't happening.
Adrian ... he is one of those keepers ... looks agile and makes some great flashy saves ..... but just looks not quite tough enough for me in a 'polite' kind of way.
I don't think we can wait 2 years to see if Byram develops. The PL can no longer be a finishing school as such. There were a couple of times on Sat where he was so bad it was not acceptable.
The back 4 needs to be solid and in form/tandem for Collins to be able to fit in and with Byram on the right that isn't happening.
Adrian ... he is one of those keepers ... looks agile and makes some great flashy saves ..... but just looks not quite tough enough for me in a 'polite' kind of way.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
I thought Adrian should have saved the Capoue volley as well to be honest. I like him but three of their goals were down to poor goalkeeping as far as I'm concerned (yes I know one of them was bad defending as well).
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
I must say, I was really taken aback about how eloquently Troy Deeney speaks.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
It’s a shame we’re not talking about some of the positive attacking stuff we dominated Watford with, in the 1st half rather than mistakes and the defensive part of our game as a whole. At 2-0 we could have backed off and made them make the plays but we gung hoed it left ourselves open and paid the price. Very West Ham.
Watford were cute, scored some good goals (Deeney’s finish was excellent) and did to us what we (under Sam) sometimes used to do to others – earn the right to play. I don’t think we’ve the fitness/energy levels at the moment to play how we started for the whole game, so for me it seems our game management is as much at fault as the stupid mistakes.
Having said that I can’t wait for Arbeloa to make RB his own, we are clearly poor there and have been since Jenkinson with someone with discipline in midfield to protect the back 4. It’s clearly (based on what we’ve seen so far) not Kouyate or Noble that can be relied on.
At the back hopefully Colins/Adrian have got their GAFF’s for the season over with and there’s a focus in the next match that see’s us get the result our football in the first 40min deserved. Maybe Oggy get’s a start – ahead of who? I thought Reid has been equally disappointing. Masuaku has been the stand-out player in the back line for a few games now and Cressy will have his work cut out getting his place back.
The WBA match now becomes important given the runs Pulis and Bilic are on. I’m hoping everyone learnt their lesson etc..
Watford were cute, scored some good goals (Deeney’s finish was excellent) and did to us what we (under Sam) sometimes used to do to others – earn the right to play. I don’t think we’ve the fitness/energy levels at the moment to play how we started for the whole game, so for me it seems our game management is as much at fault as the stupid mistakes.
Having said that I can’t wait for Arbeloa to make RB his own, we are clearly poor there and have been since Jenkinson with someone with discipline in midfield to protect the back 4. It’s clearly (based on what we’ve seen so far) not Kouyate or Noble that can be relied on.
At the back hopefully Colins/Adrian have got their GAFF’s for the season over with and there’s a focus in the next match that see’s us get the result our football in the first 40min deserved. Maybe Oggy get’s a start – ahead of who? I thought Reid has been equally disappointing. Masuaku has been the stand-out player in the back line for a few games now and Cressy will have his work cut out getting his place back.
The WBA match now becomes important given the runs Pulis and Bilic are on. I’m hoping everyone learnt their lesson etc..
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Well he does have experience in speaking in front of members of authorityBubbles & Squeaks 77 wrote:I must say, I was really taken aback about how eloquently Troy Deeney speaks.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Just watched the goals on TV fir the first time. I hadn't even seen the 2nd Watford goal before as went for a beer at very end of first half and missed it. Heard the Watford cheer from the concourse.
Watching them all again was even worse than I remember:
Goal 1 - Byram??? Wtf was that all about. He let Ighalo run from eilven furather than I remember
Goal 2 - not even worth discussing but after the original mistake Collins could have got back on the line quicker
Goal 3 - where the f*** were we? Completely all over the shop with free Watford men everywhere. Adrian should do better
Goal 4 - worst of the lot for me. Just before it Reid makes a great block after another Watford player waltzed untackled into the area, then Payet ****'s about and gives it away. Then, inexplicably three players decide to back off Ighalo (Noble just watches) without making a tackle and give him all the time in the world to pick a pass to a completely unmarked Holebas (who made the original tackle, got up and coasted into the box whilst Kouyate stood and watched). To cap it all Adrian developed chocolate wrists.
A mixture of terrible shape and structure overall, shcoking individual errors and collective laziness, lack of concentration and sloppiness
Need to sort it, and sort it quick
Watching them all again was even worse than I remember:
Goal 1 - Byram??? Wtf was that all about. He let Ighalo run from eilven furather than I remember
Goal 2 - not even worth discussing but after the original mistake Collins could have got back on the line quicker
Goal 3 - where the f*** were we? Completely all over the shop with free Watford men everywhere. Adrian should do better
Goal 4 - worst of the lot for me. Just before it Reid makes a great block after another Watford player waltzed untackled into the area, then Payet ****'s about and gives it away. Then, inexplicably three players decide to back off Ighalo (Noble just watches) without making a tackle and give him all the time in the world to pick a pass to a completely unmarked Holebas (who made the original tackle, got up and coasted into the box whilst Kouyate stood and watched). To cap it all Adrian developed chocolate wrists.
A mixture of terrible shape and structure overall, shcoking individual errors and collective laziness, lack of concentration and sloppiness
Need to sort it, and sort it quick
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Bubbles & Squeaks 77 wrote:I must say, I was really taken aback about how eloquently Troy Deeney speaks.
:lol:Rio wrote:Well he does have experience in speaking in front of members of authority
Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Arbeola, Reid, Ogbonna, Arthur, Nordveit or Obiang as DM, rocket for the rest...Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Just watched the goals on TV fir the first time. I hadn't even seen the 2nd Watford goal before as went for a beer at very end of first half and missed it. Heard the Watford cheer from the concourse.
Watching them all again was even worse than I remember:
Goal 1 - Byram??? Wtf was that all about. He let Ighalo run from eilven furather than I remember
Goal 2 - not even worth discussing but after the original mistake Collins could have got back on the line quicker
Goal 3 - where the **** were we? Completely all over the shop with free Watford men everywhere. Adrian should do better
Goal 4 - worst of the lot for me. Just before it Reid makes a great block after another Watford player waltzed untackled into the area, then Payet ****'s about and gives it away. Then, inexplicably three players decide to back off Ighalo (Noble just watches) without making a tackle and give him all the time in the world to pick a pass to a completely unmarked Holebas (who made the original tackle, got up and coasted into the box whilst Kouyate stood and watched). To cap it all Adrian developed chocolate wrists.
A mixture of terrible shape and structure overall, shcoking individual errors and collective laziness, lack of concentration and sloppiness
Need to sort it, and sort it quick
Problem is Arbeola isn't match fit so won't be ready for WBA, should make his debut against Accrington Stanley.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Interesting snippet from the club site
Wasn't that around the time of "Stand up if you've been mis-sold PPI" or something like that?I interviewed Adrian on Monday at the Club's training ground and asked him about the second goal following the mix-up with James Collins.
He said there was a call and they did everything right, but the communication got lost with the crowd noise.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
I thought the show-boating by Payet and Lanzini was totally unnecessary and hurt us. It was an insult to Watford and showed a lack of respect. We were asking for trouble. Consequently, they put the screws to us and made our defence look like fools. There are no mugs in the premier league so show some respect!!
I hope Slav has had a word with them to cut that crap out! Let's get the basics down.
Also, There needs to be greater stability now in team selection. We've undergone a ton of changes in personnel, so let's settle on our nucleus and then tweak from there.
Hopefully we've learned a lesson.
COYIs
I hope Slav has had a word with them to cut that crap out! Let's get the basics down.
Also, There needs to be greater stability now in team selection. We've undergone a ton of changes in personnel, so let's settle on our nucleus and then tweak from there.
Hopefully we've learned a lesson.
COYIs
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
What? We finally manage to sign some players who can provide a bit of magic and you want the manager to drill it out of them in case we offend someone?Canadianhammer wrote:I thought the show-boating by Payet and Lanzini was totally unnecessary and hurt us. It was an insult to Watford and showed a lack of respect. We were asking for trouble. Consequently, they put the screws to us and made our defence look like fools. There are no mugs in the premier league so show some respect!!
I hope Slav has had a word with them to cut that crap out! :
And considering Payet's cross resulted in a goal it was hardly pointless showing off was it?
And Watford had the skills to beat us all along, but only decided to do it when we upset them?
There were many issues with what happened on Saturday, skilful players using their skills was not one of them. We started really well, let in some crappy goals and fell apart. It happens. We will turn it around. But not at the expense of taking the joy out of the game.
Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Yep, agree with above, not sure how Payet's cross was pointless considering we scored from it. When a player turns you inside out like that you have to hold your hands up as a player.
Had we been doing kick ups in the corner, like Nani I think it was a few years ago who got subsequently crunched, I'd agree with the point. At 2-0, no matter how p!ssed Watford were with us, they should never have been allowed back in the game. That lies much deeper than showboating.
Had we been doing kick ups in the corner, like Nani I think it was a few years ago who got subsequently crunched, I'd agree with the point. At 2-0, no matter how p!ssed Watford were with us, they should never have been allowed back in the game. That lies much deeper than showboating.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
i thought the comments by deeney were a load of b*llocks tbh...just a good soundbite for the pressDenzil wrote:Yep, agree with above, not sure how Payet's cross was pointless considering we scored from it. When a player turns you inside out like that you have to hold your hands up as a player.
Had we been doing kick ups in the corner, like Nani I think it was a few years ago who got subsequently crunched, I'd agree with the point. At 2-0, no matter how p!ssed Watford were with us, they should never have been allowed back in the game. That lies much deeper than showboating.
they got back into it in the last 5 minutes of the first half not because "they were having none of it", but because we defended like a pub team
had we finished the half 2 up, we would have had enough about us to see the game out i think
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
I was at the game Saturday, for the first time in the OS and was blown away by the noise. My ears were ringing 30 minutes into the game. Unfortunately the second half all you could hear was the Watford supporters.
I was in section 225 of the Trevor Brooking Stand, upper tier, behind the goal. May I also say that the Stewards in our section couldn't have been nicer, and were very friendly. As a whole I absolutely loved the experience regardless of the result.
I was in section 225 of the Trevor Brooking Stand, upper tier, behind the goal. May I also say that the Stewards in our section couldn't have been nicer, and were very friendly. As a whole I absolutely loved the experience regardless of the result.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
We're playing with wingbacks as full backs and Kouyate and Noble are clearly being encouraged to push on too far.
Last year, when Tomkins started at right-back. it meant that the team moved to a 3 centre-backs style set up at the back with Cresswell pushing on and Antonio covering back. When Jenkinson started we had the same issues. Song solved this problem last year (and Nordveit may help this year).
But if we do want to get our best 11 players on the pitch (which I think we probably did (or thereabouts) on Saturday), either Noble or Kouyate need to just sit in front of the back four. Byram and Masuaku are far too attacking to not have a defensive midfielder in place.
As has been discussed though, I think Arbeloa will solve this problem in the long-term, but what worries me is that at no point during that game neither Noble or Kouyate took responsibility between them to either figure out which one was going to cover or requesting that either Byram or Masuaku hang back. Ighalo and Deeney are one of the better strikeforces in the country, and Watford are one of the few teams to play with two genuine out and out strikers, leaving them two against two was always going to be dangerous and we got punished. Bilic needs to be better than he was on Saturday, but I also think that Noble and Kouyate played without their heads.
Last year, when Tomkins started at right-back. it meant that the team moved to a 3 centre-backs style set up at the back with Cresswell pushing on and Antonio covering back. When Jenkinson started we had the same issues. Song solved this problem last year (and Nordveit may help this year).
But if we do want to get our best 11 players on the pitch (which I think we probably did (or thereabouts) on Saturday), either Noble or Kouyate need to just sit in front of the back four. Byram and Masuaku are far too attacking to not have a defensive midfielder in place.
As has been discussed though, I think Arbeloa will solve this problem in the long-term, but what worries me is that at no point during that game neither Noble or Kouyate took responsibility between them to either figure out which one was going to cover or requesting that either Byram or Masuaku hang back. Ighalo and Deeney are one of the better strikeforces in the country, and Watford are one of the few teams to play with two genuine out and out strikers, leaving them two against two was always going to be dangerous and we got punished. Bilic needs to be better than he was on Saturday, but I also think that Noble and Kouyate played without their heads.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Agree completely. How can Payet's rebona cross be classed as unnecessary when it resulted in a goal. Deeney was just playing the plucky hard done by underdog card and the media love a stick to beat us with. A half-time score of 2-0 would have led I'm sure to a comfortable home win but we then gifted their first two goals, although Deeney took his very well I must say, and at 2-2 there was only one winner.frankiemac wrote:
i thought the comments by deeney were a load of b*llocks tbh...just a good soundbite for the press
they got back into it in the last 5 minutes of the first half not because "they were having none of it", but because we defended like a pub team
had we finished the half 2 up, we would have had enough about us to see the game out i think
Can only hope lessons are learned.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
It's called entertainment.Canadianhammer wrote:I thought the show-boating by Payet and Lanzini was totally unnecessary and hurt us. It was an insult to Watford and showed a lack of respect. We were asking for trouble. Consequently, they put the screws to us and made our defence look like fools. There are no mugs in the premier league so show some respect!!
I hope Slav has had a word with them to cut that crap out! Let's get the basics down.
Also, There needs to be greater stability now in team selection. We've undergone a ton of changes in personnel, so let's settle on our nucleus and then tweak from there.
Hopefully we've learned a lesson.
COYIs
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Re: West Ham Utd v Watford: match thread
Yep, Deeney can stick his "being mugged off" line up his fat arse. Fair play to them using it as a form of motivation but I'm also there to be as entertained as possible and love to see out of the ordinary flair skill (especially when it's effective and works like Payets did).
Did we all turn our nose up during the Di Canio era where he, Tricky Trev, Cole and all used to religiously take the piss on the ball and entertain us as much as possible. For every rabona, Cruyff turn, step over, back heel, blind passing, acrobatic scissor kick goal is jump out of my seat giving it the biggest applause and ovation possible and was just as greatful to witness it live back then, as I did when Lanzini and Payet were equally taking the piss on the ball ' The West Ham Way'.
And I look forward to the next opposition player crying off they've just been 'mugged off' due to our players producing some of the best skill seen in the League.
Did we all turn our nose up during the Di Canio era where he, Tricky Trev, Cole and all used to religiously take the piss on the ball and entertain us as much as possible. For every rabona, Cruyff turn, step over, back heel, blind passing, acrobatic scissor kick goal is jump out of my seat giving it the biggest applause and ovation possible and was just as greatful to witness it live back then, as I did when Lanzini and Payet were equally taking the piss on the ball ' The West Ham Way'.
And I look forward to the next opposition player crying off they've just been 'mugged off' due to our players producing some of the best skill seen in the League.