West Ham Utd 0-3 Southampton (25/09/16)

[taffhammer]

What is this obsession with Popcorn,

You walked to the Boleyn on a cold november night with the smell of three week old caramalised onions on danger burgers filling your nostrils.We now have popcorn in buckets. Its the quintessential link to what we have lost to what we have become.
Unfortunately we still have the same old onion defending.

[E13whu]

Watching us yesterday was like watching England at the Euros, lots of players petrified of mistakes yet knowing that they would happen.

AT 1nil it was all over, and regardless of having possession we never looked like we would create a thing. Yes we tried to rally when 2 down but why start to show urgency then!

Confidence is shot, I don't buy into it having anything to do with a new ground as lets face it weve all seen lots of S*** at the Boleyn the atmosphere at Olympic park doesn't help but when we were playing crap it was no good at the Boleyn either.

BTW the answer is not big sam but the sooner Cresswell and Carroll gets back hopefully we can start to push on.

[Patito]

Pinky - well he did more than the other 11/12 players who played against Accrington didn't he? Point the finger at them if you want a scapegoat. Remind me who's set up our last three goals this season?

That's pure conjecture re Reid and you know it. You mentioned Terry and Cahill, look how many trophies they've won. I bet Reid's wages are very comparable with the likes of Alderweireld, Van Dijk and Ashley Williams.

Very poor choice of scapegoat, Payet. Himself and Antonio are the only players who are doing anything for us at the moment.

We need to defend as a team and attack as a team and work hard as a team. You might spot a trend in there, we are not pulling together as a team it is not just down to individuals. We have made some individual mistakes at times, but these mistakes are being punished because we are not pulling together and working as a team, as a unit. Once(or if) we do that, results will improve.

All IMHO of course.

[sendô]

There's not a lot to say about that performance, other than our players just did not look up for it. So many basic errors in defence and midfield, no real energy, no zip. Tracking runners, spotting danger early, making interceptions, winning the 50/50s. I don't think we did any of those things all game did we?

We can't expect to win games against good opposition without doing all of the above, regardless of who is in the team. Just look at Chelsea last season.

[hadleighhammer]

The thing that baffled me was the half time change yes Lanzini wasn't playing well but Slav spent all summer in the ITV studio saying you cant play Payet central you can't and what does he then do????

Said exactly the same at the time.

[Burnley Hammer]

A few thoughts...

There's absolutely no desire, urgency, or energy with our midfield 5. They don't look as though they're able to compete in a high intensity game - which most games are these days.

There was a point in the game yesterday where Southampton had the ball out wide, and 2 of their midfielders sprinted all the way from the centre of the pitch to support the attack, and were not followed by any of our own players. This kind of situation happens a lot and leaves our central defenders with too many players to watch. Instead of simply being able to mark the striker, they also have one eye on the extra players at the edge of the area and bursting into the box. It's why the opposition always seems to have plenty of space in and around the box. Our wingers don't track full-backs, and our midfield don't track the opposition midfields forward runs. Our defenders are constantly in 2 against 1 situations and this should not be happening.

When we attack however, it's usually done at such a slow and ponderous pace that the opposition have got 8 players back in and around the box well before we get there. Payet is often on the left, and Antonio on the right. Lanzini is buzzing around near Payet wanting to get involved with the build up play. Zaza is up front on his own with little support and 2 defenders glued to him.

Most of our attacking play involves crossing into the box - and yet we have hardly any aerial threat bar antonios late runs to the far post. Lanzini is our most attacking central midfielder but an aerial threat he's not. Maybe a 6ft 3 fernandes would provide more of a threat?

When we do counter quickly - it tends to be either kouyate charging upfield and down a blind alley, or antonio who turns defence into attack effectively enough - but doesn't have the footballing brain or technical ability to make best use of the ball.

In my opinion we're needing an energetic and intelligent defensive midfielder that generally stays back, giving the defence extra support and being on hand to help snuff out counter attacks. We need an athletic box to box midfielder to go with that player. A player that is capable of sprinting back to help out the defence, and equally sprinting forward in support of the attack. This player needs to be pacey, and have a good all round game. We need a central attacking midfielder that, aswell as getting involved in build up play, is also capable of getting into the box when crosses come in and being a second striker.

None of these roles are really being filled in my opinion.

As well as the above, all players need to press more and play with greater urgency and intensity. We look far too ponderous at the moment, it's almost painful to watch.

[Sir Trevor the Brewking]

I rarely post but feel compelled to...

I agree with everyone on here that we shouldn't blame the stadium - those players should be able to put in a better performance than that on Wanstead Flats - but the stadium is an outward symbol of how our club is changing beyond recognition before our eyes, and not only will it take time for the entire club to adapt to the new surroundings, it'll also take time to adapt to what it's becoming as a club.

We have every chance of becoming this year's Newcastle. Or Leeds. Or Aston Villa. Or Blackburn. What did those clubs have in common and what did we all say about those clubs? That they were rotten from the top and what is on the pitch reflects what's going on in the boardroom etc etc.

I don't think we're 'rotten' in the same way that Newcastle or Leeds were, but I think the move has created a massive disconnect between the people that run the club, the people that support the club and the people who work for the club. And I think this is being reflected on the pitch.

I think Bilic is a brilliant manager, but maybe the task of single-handedly trying to unite the club - inwardly and outwardly - is a lot tougher than anyone could have imagined.

I watched yesterday thinking this: is the West Ham that Mark Noble led out yesterday the same one that he led out last year? Did he play for West Ham as a 12 year old dreaming of leading out his club anywhere else but the Boleyn? Has a little bit of him died leaving there? No matter how many times he's been told that the move is a good one, maybe, just maybe, a part of him isn't quite sure. Maybe, just maybe, he sub-consciously (even consciously) finds it difficult to put in the extreme effort that he's put in over the past x seasons for a club that's moving so far away from the one he joined.

[As an aside, after the game on Sky he said that he'd been there before with this club. He couldn't be more wrong. This is now a different West Ham. The pressure is now a hundred fold. The pressure NOT to be taking that stadium into the Championship will become stifling. We could fill Upton Park in the championship, we were the cup final for many teams in the championship, with that stadium we will be an embarrassment. Tickets will have to be literally given away to create any kind of atmosphere. This is a whole new level of pressure. Noble, none of us, have been there before]

And if that is the case, I can't blame him one jot because right now that's exactly how I feel. And if it's true for him, the club captain, maybe it's true for some of the other players.

Maybe Payet found a home at Upton Park, loved what it stood for, and maybe that played a part in him going from Marseille cast-off to player of the Euros in a single season. Maybe it's part of the reason why Tomkins wanted to go.

I could be wrong, but I watched yesterday with the increasing sense that the problem is systemic - it's not about formations, or personnel, or poor signings, or confidence, it's just manifesting itself in all these things.

So my conclusion..we are in a period of extreme transition, possibly unprecedented in top flight English football. Until a new West Ham has been constructed in the image of the new surroundings, new aspirations, new culture etc, we will struggle. As a team, as a club, as a set of supporters. What we've tried to do so far is shoe-horn the old West Ham into a new stadium and everything else that comes in it. It's not working.

Maybe it'll take a complete overhaul of our club before we can truly enjoy the supposed benefits of the move and all that's come with it. I'm not for sacking Bilic but maybe we need a manager more attuned to the aspirations of the owners. I'm not for wholesale clearouts but maybe until we have a whole squad of players who have no history or attachment to the Boleyn and no experience of what it was like to have that stadium behind them, we'll never truly move on.

And once we've done that - got a new manager, a group of players with no attachment to the West Ham tradition, in a stadium that's not only not Upton Park, but isn't even football stadium - I'm not sure what's left.

[EastleighHammer16]

Calling Payet a 1 season wonder. :lol:

Ignoring the fact he was superb for 2 or 3 season before joining us. Ignoring the fact he has the most assists of anyone in the league (this was true before the weekend, not sure if someone overtook him). But yeah, he's the issue.

[swash]

Great post Burnley, but also very worrying, as I agree with what you say, and don't believe we have the personnel to solve the problems.

Dark days

[kalashnikov]

I think our personal is fine. At least for 10-12th place in the league.

It's the managerial staff I have my doubts about. Can they turn this around?

I wonder if we are actually doing stuff like 22 players on a full pitch. Standing still. Coaching staff showing players 'when ball is here, you need to be here' sort of thing.

Our shape at the breakdown, our defensive shape when we have the ball in the final third, even our defensive shape when we don't have the ball in the middle are all extremely poor. Players with no idea of where they should be.

[Burnley Hammer]

I wonder if we are actually doing stuff like 22 players on a full pitch. Standing still. Coaching staff showing players 'when ball is here, you need to be here' sort of thing.

Our shape at the breakdown, our defensive shape when we have the ball in the final third, even our defensive shape when we don't have the ball in the middle are all extremely poor. Players with no idea of where they should be.

Allardyce seemed more the type of manager that would spend time on this sort of stuff. I know that Dyche at Burnley is also very strict on his players positional play. Bilic on the other hand.... isn't there a big interview with him somewhere where he states that he doesn't believe in formations and players having strict positions? That all players should be attacking as a unit and defending as a unit? Sounds like a case where he's struggling to put his philosophies into practice.

[Antwerp_Lad]

Allardyce seemed more the type of manager that would spend time on this sort of stuff. I know that Dyche at Burnley is also very strict on his players positional play. Bilic on the other hand.... isn't there a big interview with him somewhere where he states that he doesn't believe in formations and players having strict positions? That all players should be attacking as a unit and defending as a unit? Sounds like a case where he's struggling to put his philosophies into practice.

I seem to recall that too.

However, that only works if your players actually want to put the shift in (Atletico Madrid is the perfect example), many at the club don't seem to though.

[kalashnikov]

I think I heard Jamie Redknapp was on Sky Conte is another one too.

Interesting that about Bilic.. the fluid philosophy thing. I've definitely heard it before, it tends to be associated with pressing teams though Klopp, Pep etc. Something that is lacking for us at the moment.

[ironstu]

Must say, I thought Van Dijk and Fonte were class yesterday. Absolutely bossed it. Has to come close to the perfect away performance from them despite the fact we were utter *****. I thought they'd struggle this season but they looked a quality outfit yesterday, very assured and each player knew their role. Something which we are lacking, clarity of role. CDM's not holding, full-backs getting caught too high up the pitch, lone striker playing where the CAM should be. Not good enough.

[il_martello_di_genovesi]

That all players should be attacking as a unit and defending as a unit? Sounds like a case where he's struggling to put his philosophies into practice.

He said this after we beat Liverpool 3-0, because it's exactly what we did. It's when he used his moving bus analogy. This was a game where we had Tomkins at RB and Sakho upfront...

[Nick Sneddon]

Won't have to worry about Payet for long he will gone in January.

Here we go – why not start a thread on it?

[The Old Mile End]

Looking through the history books, this is now the worst start in our history. Losing 5 out of the first 6 - never been done before from what I can see.

Oh well, she was right....History begins in.......

[Langley Hammer]

I like Bilic but like Zola I think he was a one season wonder and he's out of depth. We need someone in and fast, the question is, who?

Louis Van Gaal

[psychoscoredthelot]

i didnt see the 2nd half as i stayed down at the bar - we got 12 pints for the price of 6 as we confused the romanian girl there so much :lol:

enjoyed it there so much we stayed till well after the game - then i caught my mate sneaking into the disabled toilets so me and his son were banging on the door and shouting ' you are able bodied ' ' i saw you walk in here ' ' i need to go to the toilet and you have stopped me '

THAT was the highlight of my day

[TootingRob]

As has been said a few times already, we were very poor. We'll definitely improve but playing a 4-2-3-1 is hampering us at the moment as we don't have up to speed full backs. So many attacks are coming down the flanks opposition fullbacks are overlapping our wide front players (Payet, Lanzini and Antonio who are rotating) and pressurising our own fullbacks. Makes our defence look all over the place when it's our boys up top not getting back. Great system away from home but I'd switch to a flat 4-4-2 at home for a while to steady the ship.
Also think we'd benefit if we narrowed the pitch. The Boleyn was narrow why not make the pitch the same. I'm sure this one is much wider. Sure Noble and Kouyate would benefit from it.