West Ham Utd 1-1 Middlesbrough (01/10/16)

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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Colours never run »

steps wrote:Just to put things into perspective regarding some of our shots yesterday: Zaza absolutely ballooned one from quite a distance just in front of us in the 2nd half and got dog's abuse from those around me.

5 minutes later Antonio did exactly the same thing which was met with a weird silence.

.


I was one of them! It really wasn't good enough at all. Nor was Antonios, but at least he knew how bad it was and took it out by giving the turf a thump out of frustration. Zazas shooting and lack of it has been alarming. He also doesn't work hard enough finding decent space. Often tends to make the wrong run or box himself between defenders leaving himself with too much to do to win the ball. He needs to learn the Sheringham art of finding plenty of space literally just find the space then the players should find you more easily instead of doing the lazy thing of always hanging on the shoulder of the last defender being furthest forward. Go to the edge of the box to get the space needed to get shots away, the likes of Payet would definitely find him but he keeps making the wrong or lazy decisions. That's what's frustrating me a lot about his game, as well as his poor first touch generally.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Burnley Hammer »

somerset-hammer wrote:Wasn't there a theory last year that we were in fact quite lucky, based on the number of chances it took for us to score being quite low?

Seems to be the other way around now.
Yes exactly that - well maybe not the luckiness, but the conversion rate definitely.
Last edited by Burnley Hammer on Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Colours never run »

somerset-hammer wrote:Wasn't there a theory last year that we were in fact quite lucky, based on the number of chances it took for us to score being quite low?

Seems to be the other way around now.


Not for me. We were just far more clinical with better strikers to call upon who didn't waste half as many chances as right now.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Crouchend_Hammer »

Burnley Hammer wrote:And according to Squawka stats, Zaza and Calleri have a shot accuracy of 0% Fletcher highest on 25%

That really is abysmal.

That's Fletcher, 1 out of 4 on target
Calleri 0 out of 4
Zaza 0 out of 6

I'm can't vouch for the accuracy of Squawkas stats by the way - I'm sure I remember Zaza forcing a save.

Compare that with a few randoms I picked out:
Austin 50% from 8 shots
Vokes 40% from 9 shots
Deeney 60% from 12 shots

Whilst those stats are fairly condeming we don't create too many really clear cut chances for our strikers. Calleri had the one on one against Bournemouth and an easy header against Astra, but I don't Zaza has missed any glaring ones yet (however that is also due to his absymal movement and inability to control the ball)
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by The Old Man of Storr »

the pink palermo wrote:With regards to our midfield is it time to shrink the pitch down to the same size as the Boleyn ?

5 yards in each direction may not sound much but it would by default reduce the ground our lads need to cover .
This is possibly an issue though obviously not for Watford and Southampton .

I've been thinking about it myself as this isn't the first time it has been brought up - not sure on the legalities of it - can we change the size of the pitch 7 games in - could we change the size of the pitch at will , on a fortnightly basis for instance ?
And who chose the size initially ?

We should look into it , experiment with it with an 11 vs 11 in training .
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by ludo22 »

Bit baffled by some stuff yesterday-
1)We are in a relegation fight after a handful of games where we are scrapping for every point and we start with Tore.Really?There are
savage tribes yet undiscovered in the darkest rainforests who are aware that Tore is ****ing useless but our manager isn't.He is a disgrace yet he has a starting place in a huge match against,let's face it,our relegation rivals.Utterly bizarre and really makes me question our Gaffer's judgement and/or stubbornness.
2)Why bring Zaza on in front of Fletcher?Zaza is only slightly less useless than Tore and ,in another time where we are playing well in front of happy punters,he might,just might,work out.But in the current climate,he is a complete waste of time.Whereas Fletcher has been quietly impressive and shown he is up for it.
3)Starting Noble OR Kouyate is a risk,Starting Noble AND Kouyate is ****ing suicide.Both of these players,for whatever reason,are dreadful at the moment and need to be benched ASAP.

We can whinge about transfer windows,injuries as much as we like,but we are not deploying our current resources correctly in my opinion.Our available squad ain't great but it's better than the **** that has been spooned up to us.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Aceface »

Burnley Hammer wrote:How many of Collins and Reids punts forward have actually resulted in something positive?
As pointed out on MOTD, Reid gets credited with an assist for Payet's goal Image
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by hammers92 »

I can see why Tore played and how he was supposed to be used, to give an inch of credit.

But he's just useless, hopefully that's it now
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Sauce! »

A vast improvement (shots on target aside) on the Saints fiasco.

Best atmosphere since the NK Domzale game (which ain't saying much but it's progress).

Boro fans weren't up to much 'til they scored, we were in block 142 so might be doing them a disservice.

Obiang, Reid, Collins, Antonio all did well. Payet deserved motm he coped well with Boro's foul rotation system, unlike referee Neil Warnock, I mean Swarbrick.

Tore? Can't see what he brings to the game I'm afraid - does he have pictures of Slav & The Baroness on his smartphone?

Zaza? Do we keep playing him in the hope he does a Tevez, or is he a luxury we can't afford?

We are staying up! :scarfer:
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by steps »

Colours never run wrote: I was one of them! It really wasn't good enough at all. Nor was Antonios, but at least he knew how bad it was and took it out by giving the turf a thump out of frustration. Zazas shooting and lack of it has been alarming. He also doesn't work hard enough finding decent space. Often tends to make the wrong run or box himself between defenders leaving himself with too much to do to win the ball. He needs to learn the Sheringham art of finding plenty of space literally just find the space then the players should find you more easily instead of doing the lazy thing of always hanging on the shoulder of the last defender being furthest forward. Go to the edge of the box to get the space needed to get shots away, the likes of Payet would definitely find him but he keeps making the wrong or lazy decisions. That's what's frustrating me a lot about his game, as well as his poor first touch generally.
Weird as I didn't think he was lazy yesterday, I actually thought he was busting a gut to make something happen. And also thought his performance was an improvement on previous games.

But I think it's easy to get sucked into the West Ham way of turning on a player and judging his allround games after very few performances. I remember how the knives were out for Moses and Zarate last season. Both scored goals for us.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Iron-worx »

Colours never run wrote: I was one of them! It really wasn't good enough at all. Nor was Antonios, but at least he knew how bad it was and took it out by giving the turf a thump out of frustration. Zazas shooting and lack of it has been alarming. He also doesn't work hard enough finding decent space. Often tends to make the wrong run or box himself between defenders leaving himself with too much to do to win the ball. He needs to learn the Sheringham art of finding plenty of space literally just find the space then the players should find you more easily instead of doing the lazy thing of always hanging on the shoulder of the last defender being furthest forward. Go to the edge of the box to get the space needed to get shots away, the likes of Payet would definitely find him but he keeps making the wrong or lazy decisions. That's what's frustrating me a lot about his game, as well as his poor first touch generally.
Zaza has had decent scoring records in the not too distant past, I don't know the setups he was playing in at those times though.

He looks absolutely hopeless in the role we've given him so I suspect that it might have been very different setups he was scoring in.

11 in 18 at Viareggio, 18 in 35 at Ascoli, 20 in 64 at Sassuolo, 5 in 19 at Juve.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Colours never run »

I would have agreed if he'd played in the first half, but he only came on in the 2nd half and wasn't impressed at all with his work rate. He did do well to begin with but the last part of the half I thought his effort and quality was shocking.

If I compared him to Carrolls effort during a game, it's still night and day and Carroll wouldn't give up if he didn't lose the first challenge. He'd try and go after it again. Zaza doesn't do that nearly enough, although he does when he feels like it. Simply not good enough for me.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Colours never run »

Well I noticed he started out as a target man lone striker and then later in. The half he was more paired with Antonio in a 442 formation. And in both styles he didn't impress. I'm not sure what else we can do to help him play tactically, as Bilic as seemingly tried it all. He's just been **** in this League so far and I'm losing hope he'll come good if this is as good as it gets. Maybe it'll change once he scores his first goal in off his arse, but I'm really not holding my breath.

Also Italian leagues aren't the hustle and bustle 100 mph football it is here and it shows with old Zaza who looks shocked by it all and sinking without a trace.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Claretandblueyank »

When a new player is struggling to find his feet, especially after playing in a league like Italy, you would think that our supporters would want to be encouraging for at least five games. Instead, we help destroy his confidence further.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by 17 years of hurt »

When I saw the line up I definitely feared the worst. Was pleased to see obiang in and he definitely deserves to retain his place for the palace game. The thing that frustrated me was seeing both noble and
Kouyate alongside him. It showed in our play in the first half as we lacked a lot of creativity going forward. Yes we were more solid but there was t enough going forward. Antonio battled well up front but is no more a striker than he is a rb.

The game was there for the taking once we got level but very frustratingly we looked more concerned about not losing than going for the win. Taking pot shots from distance instead of trying to work it into a better goal scoring position shows the serious lack of confidence. Given the amount weve conceded on the counter this season it's not really surprising.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by Iron-worx »

Colours never run wrote:Well I noticed he started out as a target man lone striker and then later in. The half he was more paired with Antonio in a 442 formation. And in both styles he didn't impress. I'm not sure what else we can do to help him play tactically, as Bilic as seemingly tried it all. He's just been **** in this League so far and I'm losing hope he'll come good if this is as good as it gets. Maybe it'll change once he scores his first goal in off his arse, but I'm really not holding my breath.

Italian leagues aren't the hustle and bustle 100 mph football it is here and it shows with old Zaza who looks shocked by it all and sinking without a trace.
He isn't cutting it and isn't coming within a million miles of cutting it, strikers are supposed to keep the ball alive and he doesn't do that. Antonio was way better so for my money he keeps the place.

There's got to be some reason why Zaza isn't doing it though as he must have had some attributes to score at the rate he was doing.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by irving boleyn »

I now understand about booing.

I emitted a totally random unprecedented boo when the third shot was ballooned from 20 yards from the third individual player.

On reflection I think I wanted so badly to swear, but was unconsciously aware of the sedate company I was in (East Upper)
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by steps »

Claretandblueyank wrote:When a new player is struggling to find his feet, especially after playing in a league like Italy, you would think that our supporters would want to be encouraging for at least five games. Instead, we help destroy his confidence further.
Exactly.

Pretty sure West Ham is one of the only clubs who do this.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by goof »

My views from coming back from the game are that Zaza, Antonio & Tore all need to learn how to shoot on target & not hit the pigeons minding there own business.Tore & Antonio when they go to beat a man should put the ball to one side & pass him on one side, i dont understand why every single time they kick the ball at the oppsoing players feet & run straight into him. Antonio looked better than Zaza up front & although Zaza looked a bit better than normal, reverting back to the formation with players that has not been working all season baffled me. I said it in the match threads about playing 442 with Zaza & Fletcher up top together, the amount of balls that were headed on by Antonio & Zaza to just find a struggling Tore a boro player & a blank patch of grass was unbeileable. I do think that when Noble went off suddenly boro had the freedom of the park & some of the link up play totally evaporated, kind of like when Parker used to go off. We need to learn how to defend 1st & 2nd plays off corners, in too many games has this been our down fall. The game could have gone either way yesterday but i wish he would try 442 at home in the near future, i just cant see it getting any better if he dosent try.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Middlesbrough: match thread

Post by brewster »

It was better yesterday but still a bit disjointed, probably due to lack of confidence.

I've said this before though and will keep saying it until it gets sorted which doesn't look like anytime soon.
We don't work hard enough...............We did last season against teams that were "better" than us, the big boys in other words but against those we should have beaten easily we struggled. You would have thought with the start we've had we would be busting a gut in every game but we still give too much possession to the opposition and there were moments yesterday when we switched off. The mentality of these players HAS to change otherwise we will continue to struggle.
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