West Ham Utd 1-0 Sunderland (22/10/16)

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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Romford on Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:57 pm

stu1 wrote:
What did you think of the first half?

I thought we were excellent. We created a number of chances with free flowing football but unfortunately our finishing was poor, on another day we could of been 3-0 up at half time.

I understand that the second half of a game can sometimes hold a greater weight in people's opinions, but it seems a lot of people are forgetting some of the quality football we played first half.


Sunderland had a few chances in the first half too....

I think the first 20 was good but not great...the rest was reasonably poor with a terrible shape and a shocking last ball.

I bet Mackems fans will say thats the most chances away from home they've had....and that their keeper did very very little. Always the first question you should ask yourself when you leave the ground.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:02 pm

The only difference between that 'excellent' performance and the 'awful' draw against Middlesbrough was conceding a single goal from a set play.

Both games - shots roughly 2:1 in our favour with all the good, approach play done by us.

We really do need to find some shooting boots though, because Payet aside (and Winston yesterday), the rest have usually been terrible efforts.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Colours never run on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:15 pm

What we were piss poor with yesterday, was not working the Keeper enough. Many times we'd get in good positions but either the final ball was naff or the effort at goal was ****. That goes for the whole team, not just the piss poor Strikers.

If I had to choose which Striker to go with to start the next game though, it would be Calleri. I think he would relax more if starting a game, rather than keep coming off the bench for short cameos. Zazas had his opportunity to impress from the start and bar 1 game (although still poor in front of goal) he doesn't deserve to keep his place. I'm half expecting Ayew to be fit enough for the bench with a bit of luck.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Romford on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:19 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:The only difference between that 'excellent' performance and the 'awful' draw against Middlesbrough was conceding a single goal from a set play.

Both games - shots roughly 2:1 in our favour with all the good, approach play done by us.

We really do need to find some shooting boots though, because Payet aside (and Winston yesterday), the rest have usually been terrible efforts.


I really think the problem is the chance creation....the crossing was particularly shocking yesterday.

Yesterday was not excellant in any shape or form IMHO.

Everton will bury us next week if we don't play better...and work on our shape and tactics. Far too many square and negative passing in the middle of the park and the Mackem middlefielder with the dodgy barnet had the freedom of the centre of the pitch picking up 2nd balls at will.

Felt sorry for our MOTM Fernandes....had no help at all from whoever was playing left midfield (Payet/Lanzini).
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:22 pm

Colours never run wrote:


Yep, that'll be the ones. Had they been available, amongst that lot I'd have expected at least 5 goals between them by now and with that more points on the board.


Which ones of these three are you classifying as proven quality and reliable?
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Colours never run on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:23 pm

All 3 when selected. Couldn't be any clearer.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:24 pm

I have just realised Sunderland had a real clear cut chance just after half time. I was slow getting back to my seat and didn't see the it
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:28 pm

Colours never run wrote:All 3 when selected. Couldn't be any clearer.


Big if, given that Carroll and Sakho are hardly ever available. Not exactly reliable

pointless to say 'what if' based on these two being available because the odds were always firmly against this
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Colours never run on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:49 pm

But that's not based on their ability, which was what I was getting at. It's well documented how much they miss games but I can't question their reliability on the pitch when they do play. I can't say the same about those currently playing so poorly.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Oct 23, 2016 1:55 pm

Romford wrote:I really think the problem is the chance creation....the crossing was particularly shocking yesterday..


Don't seem to get many in the box either.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Colours never run on Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:03 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:Romford
I really think the problem is the chance creation....the crossing was particularly shocking yesterday

Don't seem to get many in the box either.




Both issues were glaringly obvious yesterday, which you both rightly point out. The crossing from most of them was poor and we now lack bodies in the box when compared to last season we would flood the final third. I do feel that'll be rectified the longer the season goes on with some of our decent Strikers eventually returning and the team gets its confidence back. I'd also rather sacrifice Kouyate being an ever present in the opposition box for ours right now so it prevents us from being over exposed in the middle which has been our downfall for far too long, so we've had to sacrifice a bit of that with the inclusion of Obiang. In the meantime the likes of Lanzini, Antonio, Feghouli, Noble must try their best in supporting the lone striker whoever it may be.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby hammerdivone on Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:16 pm

coyi27 wrote:All based on handful of appearances. This is the exact problem with football fans in this day and age. No one has any patience. Everyone wants everything straight away.

coyi27 wrote:Valencia was given every chance in pre and early season to prove himself

roblo wrote: "no comment trying to make a point"


And the whole of last season as well. How patient do you want us to be Roblo?

As for Ferghouli and Fletcher being behind Valencia, now you really are talking rubbish.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Romford on Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:29 pm

Colours never run wrote:
Both issues were glaringly obvious yesterday, which you both rightly point out. The crossing from most of them was poor and we now lack bodies in the box when compared to last season we would flood the final third. I do feel that'll be rectified the longer the season goes on with some of our decent Strikers eventually returning and the team gets its confidence back. I'd also rather sacrifice Kouyate being an ever present in the opposition box for ours right now so it prevents us from being over exposed in the middle which has been our downfall for far too long, so we've had to sacrifice a bit of that with the inclusion of Obiang. In the meantime the likes of Lanzini, Antonio, Feghouli, Noble must try their best in supporting the lone striker whoever it may be.


What position is Kouyate playing right now....

:?

Nothing upfront, no width and no presence in the middle of the park. As i said earlier...our shape is a huge issue.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Sun Oct 23, 2016 2:45 pm

I have to agree with those saying our crossing was awful. A good few of Antonio's were scuffed along the ground, and Payet frequently failed to clear the first defender. Odd, as when they shoot from outside the box it often sails way over the bar.

I also thought when we attacked down the wings, support for the first ball carrier was slow in coming. Matters improved, on the right side at least, when Feghouli came on. We doubled up on the wing and looked much more of a threat even though there weren't many options in the box. It should be a standard operating procedure for a winger who gets to the goal line to expect someone to be attacking the penalty spot, so if he is unable to pick out an individual in the box he always has that option.

Recall Manchester United in the days of Giggs, Scholes and Rooney. They scored many goals with that very ploy. Giggs would get to the bye line and pull it back to the spot without even looking up, knowing that Shrek or Scholes would be running on to it.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby ryanrc on Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:23 pm

Good confidence booster and a good performance overall - definitely deserved the win. Just cause Sunderland are down there don't mean they haven't had chances - defoe has had plenty, but we did well to contain them and the clean sheets are as important as the wins atm.

I have to say though a year in and I'm still not convinced by Oggy, I know some really rate him but he worries me and I'd like to see us upgrade on him and a Striker in Jan.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Knighter10WHU on Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:27 pm

Very frustrating performance yesterday. If we had put the ball away in the opening 15 minutes we could have gone on to put 3/4 past them, but as the game went on the confidence seemed to die. What a surprise that when we finally put a shot in from outside the box it went in. We've got to get better at putting the ball into dangerous positions, either that be from crosses or from through balls or shots from 25 yards out, give the opposition to think about.

On the plus side, we defended well again and 3 more points!
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:47 pm

Johnny Byrne's Boots wrote:I have to agree with those saying our crossing was awful. A good few of Antonio's were scuffed along the ground, and Payet frequently failed to clear the first defender. Odd, as when they shoot from outside the box it often sails way over the bar.

I also thought when we attacked down the wings, support for the first ball carrier was slow in coming. Matters improved, on the right side at least, when Feghouli came on. We doubled up on the wing and looked much more of a threat even though there weren't many options in the box. It should be a standard operating procedure for a winger who gets to the goal line to expect someone to be attacking the penalty spot, so if he is unable to pick out an individual in the box he always has that option.

Recall Manchester United in the days of Giggs, Scholes and Rooney. They scored many goals with that very ploy. Giggs would get to the bye line and pull it back to the spot without even looking up, knowing that Shrek or Scholes would be running on to it.


This with bells on. Antonio beat his man regularly in first half but only Zaza in box marked by four players. Similarly Feoghul and Calleri late in 2nd half.
That's the problem with three at the back and Noble and Obiang. No one attacking the box. Antonio attacks from his side if he on pitch but no one else bothers that often. Tbf Lanzini did last week and we need more of that. Hard for a winger if not much to aim for against a packed defence
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Colours never run on Sun Oct 23, 2016 3:57 pm

Romford wrote:
What position is Kouyate playing right now....

:?

Nothing upfront, no width and no presence in the middle of the park. As i said earlier...our shape is a huge issue.


In defence thankfully, for both his sake and ours. I actually really like this new shape we've developed since Palace and has a nice balance to us.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Colours never run on Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:38 pm

We have the bodies to get in the box, even wth playing Obiang holding and Kouyate in defence.

Depending on who's likely crossing at the time, usually out of Antonio, Payet, we should expect the likes of;

Zaza*, Lanzini, Noble, Antonio/Payet. Also once Cresswells back that'll be an additional player free from the wing to get himself into the box. So any given time we should soon be expecting about 3/4 players getting themselves into the box.

Ideally Carroll/Ayew/Sakho which any of them make a big difference in the box. It really doesn't help when Zaza wasn't getting himself into the box enough when we needed him too which isn't helping.

It's just players getting used to a new system and settling in more playing this way which again can only be helped further with Cresswell, Carroll, Ayew coming back soon to compliment the way we go forward better. We had it against Palace even with Zaza playing, we just lost a bit of it because the quality deserted us.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Sunderland: match thread

Postby Up the Junction on Sun Oct 23, 2016 6:18 pm

I wonder how many of those claiming it was a good performance would have said the same 60 seconds prior to the final whistle.

I think Bubbles (re: 'Boro) and Romford (re: shape/effectiveness) have called this just about right. Also felt youngest Edimilson was unfortunate not to get the MotM call.

But as is often said, if you can play poorly and still win things can't be too bad.
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