Manchester Utd 4-0 West Ham Utd (13/08/17)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby HammerMan2004 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:45 am

bubbles1966 wrote:Manchester United committed 19 fouls in this game - the highest by any team in the league over the weekend.


I'd guess that 17 were on Hernandez.
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby steviob125 on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:00 am

Aceface wrote:Rice is going to annoy a few players with his constant pointing at his feet when he wants to receive the ball.


Modern football


Edit to say: The geezer has to be fishing surely?
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Hamburger on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:23 am

Rays Rock wrote:
...... we continue to invite sustained pressure in exposed areas such as the wide positions due to the lack of protection our formation gives our "full backs". It happened all of last season, it surrenders the upper hand to any opposition that targets those weak areas.
The fact that we don't concede ALL of our goals through this area is an anomaly, the die is already cast, the opposition has our number and waits for us to break apart and chase the game !

Shocking tactical awareness from a highly paid manager !


Spot on Rays, I don't get why we back up so much and invite teams on. At one point a Man U player picked the ball up near his own box and strolled it through to near ours without a single challenge. We have to get stuck into them higher up not allow teams easy paths forward.

It seems shape and tactics same as last year, Bilic too one dimensional and players already look frustrated that they can't contain or break down with those tactics & coaching. Yes it's the first game and yes they're a good side but we were clueless in all departments and it is not the players who are to blame, they need better tactics & better coaching.
.
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Pokie on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:33 am

bubbles1966 wrote:Manchester United committed 19 fouls in this game - the highest by any team in the league over the weekend.


But the one foul Lukaku commited on 7 Mins went unpunished?

can somebody please watch this back and watch what he did off the ball around the 7 minute mark?

This would surely have been a red card
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Sir_Trevor on Mon Aug 14, 2017 11:39 am

bubbles1966 wrote:Manchester United committed 19 fouls in this game - the highest by any team in the league over the weekend.


Considering how little time we had the ball, that is a pretty shocking statistic.
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Morocco Mole on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:07 pm

HammerMan2004 wrote:I'd guess that 17 were on Hernandez.


Hacked him to bits didn't they?

Having slept on it Cheech's battling performance was probably my most positive takeaway from that shitshow. Wasn't 100% convinced about him as a lone striker but he plays bigger than he looks. Shields it well, good jump on him, decent strength, doesn't get bullied. Gonna be fine. :thup:
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby sendô on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:12 pm

They were kicking lumps out of Hernandez, Matic in particular committed several fouls that might have been yellows that weren't carded.
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:35 pm

At no point did we look like winning yesterday , and once they got the second a draw seemed beyond us .

All 4 summer signings started, by the time the reinforcements arrive three league games will have gone by , and the season effectively all about mid table mediocrity .

Slaven needs to chuck everything he has got at the league cup , everything , hold nothing back .
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:49 pm

Posted on the Bilic thread but i think more pertinent here

Some people seem to be suggesting we let in 4 because we went all 'gung-ho' at 2-0. We certainly didn't. We brought on an additional striker but hardly created a chance, or got men forward.
We let in 4 because the players don't have much fight and gave up. It is tactical / motivational weakness to let in goals in clusters like we did numerous times last season.

For the first goal, Obiang gave the ball away but we were not over committed. We still had plenty of men back but defended absymally. Defensive players really should be better prepared to defend against a counter attack - we simply cannot do it (watch our embarrassing efforts to stop the breakaway against chelsea at home last season)

For the 2nd goal, it was absymal organisation at a corner, allowing their star striker a free header

to be honest i can't remember the 3rd goal, but the 4th goal was not about over committing. Again it was about rank awful defending, organisation and effort

At no stage did we make any real effort to win that game (which would have at least excused a drubbing), but still lost 4-0!

We are still, by far, the most disorganised team in the top flight
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby fmgod on Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:52 pm

sendô wrote:They were kicking lumps out of Hernandez, Matic in particular committed several fouls that might have been yellows that weren't carded.


Kante, Wanyama, Can, do it every week but never get booked or sent off, just dreadful refs/big club bias
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby B'WoodBob on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:00 pm

the pink palermo wrote:
Slaven needs to chuck everything he has got at the league cup , everything , hold nothing back .


I agree Pink, we really need to make home advantage count....
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby daveo on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:03 pm

the pink palermo wrote:At no point did we look like winning yesterday , and once they got the second a draw seemed beyond us .

All 4 summer signings started, by the time the reinforcements arrive three league games will have gone by , and the season effectively all about mid table mediocrity .

Slaven needs to chuck everything he has got at the league cup , everything , hold nothing back .


So because we lost one game heavily to probably the second best team in the Prem away from home we can write off a top 8 finish and settle for meandering in mid table?

We've no chance of points at Soton and Newc then?

Talk about a knee jerk reaction!!
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby sendô on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:07 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:rank awful defending

It's deja vu all over again.

How many defenders have we signed? What's our defensive coach doing?
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:12 pm

daveo wrote:So because we lost one game heavily to probably the second best team in the Prem away from home we can write off a top 8 finish and settle for meandering in mid table?

We've no chance of points at Soton and Newc then?

Talk about a knee jerk reaction!!


Nothing knee jerk about it .

It's my rational assessment based upon what I have been watching for a year or so .It's my opinion based upon some hard data relating to GD and European qualification .It's what I believe based upon how tough a league this is when you fall behind .

I estimated 4 points from the first 6 games based upon what I had seen pre season , signings made and whether I could see a discernible game plan .

It's an assessment borne out of observing the current owners M.O. in Managers contract discussions .

Slaven needs a good showing in the league cup because if he leaves it any later the owners will have already made their call on his future in January .

A mid table, negative GD 9th place finish will not see him get a new deal next year .Toss in a league cup , it might be enough .

So, nothing knee jerk, just rational thought .
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Ozza on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:14 pm

Pinky do you think these owners will give him a contract if we do well, not sure I do?
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby DannyboyDJL on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:46 pm

Hamburger wrote:
Spot on Rays, I don't get why we back up so much and invite teams on. At one point a Man U player picked the ball up near his own box and strolled it through to near ours without a single challenge. We have to get stuck into them higher up not allow teams easy paths forward.


We back off because we are slow and the midfield doesn't have the energy to press. To press high up the pitch, the whole team has to be able to do it. As soon as we did press, Matic just put a ball over the top and they were in.

Something is wrong, whether it's desire, fitness or concentration we are just too easy to get at. It's so simple.
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby warp on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:50 pm

the pink palermo wrote:All 4 summer signings started, by the time the reinforcements arrive three league games will have gone by , and the season effectively all about mid table mediocrity.

we didn't really need the latest game to forecast that...

three bad games in a row will affect the rest of the season, sure, but there is a reason if you play the first three games poorly, and it is likely to be that the team is a bit ****.
you don't make your season in the first three games.


anyway, onto soton, our first save-our-season game! :scarfer:
Last edited by warp on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby daveo on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:50 pm

So because we lost one game heavily to probably the second best team in the Prem away from home we can write off a top 8 finish and settle for meandering in mid table?

We've no chance of points at Soton and Newc then?

Talk about a knee jerk reaction!!
the pink palermo wrote:Nothing knee jerk about it .

It's my rational assessment based upon what I have been watching for a year or so .It's my opinion based upon some hard data relating to GD and European qualification .It's what I believe based upon how tough a league this is when you fall behind .

I estimated 4 points from the first 6 games based upon what I had seen pre season , signings made and whether I could see a discernible game plan .

It's an assessment borne out of observing the current owners M.O. in Managers contract discussions .

Slaven needs a good showing in the league cup because if he leaves it any later the owners will have already made their call on his future in January .

A mid table, negative GD 9th place finish will not see him get a new deal next year .Toss in a league cup , it might be enough .

So, nothing knee jerk, just rational thought .


With respect your "rational assessment" completely fails to factor in that we have virtually half a starting eleven of new signings (incl Carvalho) compared to last season who need at least a little time to bed in, not to mention that our 2 best players IMO (Lanz and Antonio) didn't play at Man Utd.

Its virtually impossible to judge how a season will develop when a first choice eleven hasn't taken to the pitch yet.

Are Palace destined for a relegation fight after 0-3 at home to Hudd? Chelsea resigned to 5th place at best after 2-3 v Burnley?

That said, I agree that with the squad investment (incl Carvalho and a probable Snodgrass replacement) we should expect 8th place in the Prem as I believe our squad is now superior to all but the big 6 teams plus probably Everton.

So a mediocre 9th without at least say a semi final of a Cup would be classed as failure in my book and lead to us moving on from Bilic
Last edited by the pink palermo on Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Sorted out your quoting
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Beavis Danzig on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:56 pm

if pressed into finding a silver lining, it's that what problems we have were exposed in a way that can't be hand-waved by excuses about their quality and us being understrength. at 2-0 that would've been tempting to keep morale up going into next week, at 4-0 it's a shot across the bow of every player's assumed place in the XI.

i'm writing off goal difference in the hope that one of slav's suicide setups at some point this season grabs us a point which makes the whole thing moot anyway.
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Re: Manchester United vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Billydinho on Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:58 pm

Chelsea lost 3-0 at the Emirates at the start of last season.

I still believe.
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