Southampton 3-2 West Ham Utd (19/08/17)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Burnley Hammer on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:11 am

Central Defenders are used to watching the match play out in front of them. Defensive Midfielders have to be very aware of what's going on in front and behind. It's not an easy transition to make. I noticed Rice was frequently focusing on what was in front and having some difficulty with runners behind him. I'd prefer him to slot into defence and get to grips with that role. Full backs on the other hand are used to having to watch the game in front and behind due to their frequent excursions up the pitch. An experienced player like Zabaleta, with his terrier like attitude, would have been great sat in front of the defence with Obiang, allowing Byram to continue developing at right back. I do think we miss Byrams height too - he's very good in the air and a useful player to have in the box at set pieces.

The only issue I have with the above is that neither Zabaleta or Obiang are really too dominant in the air and we lose out on too many aerial challenges in that area. That's the main reason we miss Kouyate. Not his energy or his athleticism or his defensive capabilities, but his strength and his height.

It was definitely a strange move to play Rice instead of Obiang. If Bilic wanted to improve the defensive side of our game then he should have at least played both.

Cresswell bugs me too. If he has a good game, it's because he's got forward a bit and put in some good crosses. If he has a bad game, it's because he hasn't done that. Nobody really notices the defensive side of his game and that's because he doesn't really do an awful lot other than attempt to block crosses. I like a full back to be much stronger and better in the air. An occasional crunching tackle doesn't go amiss either to let the winger know you mean business.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby OFT on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:21 am

Good to read the posts and opinions of those who were at the game.
As is usual for me, 5 live was the order of the day on saturday. They reported the first penalty as a pull by Ogbonna which came as no surprise at the time.the surprise came when it turned out to be Fonte... not in giving away the pen. but the hideous way in which he did.
Work distracted me from the radio for a while and when I got back we were 1-2 and when level shortly after, I had a strange feeling we were going to nick all 3. :P
Finally saw the 'highlights' on MOTD this morning.
The last minute pen?......I suppose it was, the fact that Zab would have got away with it at City does n't make it not a pen but it does underline the difference in reffing that those at the top get compared to the rest, the fact that the pundits overlook these issues drive me to distraction.

I do wish the authorities would do away with the pre- kick off line up hand shake thing, it's nonsense .
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby DannyboyDJL on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:28 am

The first Lukaku goal last week was almost identical to their first goal yesterday.

Lukaku's 2nd goal from the free kick was Masuaku not holding the line and he played him onside.

Martial's goal came from him getting between Reid and Zabaleta and Zab was too slow to get across.

The 1st penalty happened because Fonte dropped 5 yards deeper than the rest of the defence instead of pressing Davies on the edge of the box. When he did finally press, he was trying to make up ground and rushed into the tackle. Zabaleta had left Gabbiadini goal side of him in the box, but was offside if Fonte held the line. Fonte dropped to cover him, but left the man free on the edge of the box.

The 2nd penalty came when Yoshida got between Zab and the centre back again. Again he was goal side of Zabaleta, but Cresswell was playing him onside on the other side. Zabaleta was chasing to get back right side and nudged him.

In our pre season game against City, their 2nd goal came from Silva running between Byram and Fonte and crossing to Aguero who was running between Masuaku and Ogbonna. Their 3rd came from Byram leaving Sterling goal side of him and offside, but then Fonte dropped a couple of yards deeper than the rest of the line and played him on.

Basically, our back 4 aren't holding a line or playing as a unit and nearly all the goals are still coming down our right hand side. The full backs are leaving players goal side and offside, but then a centre back is dropping and playing everyone onside.

We also seem to have a massive hole right in front of the back 4 and behind the midfield. The ball is constantly played between the 2 holding midfielders right into the feet of an unmarked player. It happens 5-10 times a game and has been happening for months now.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Patito on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:35 am

Just seen the MOTD "coverage" of our match.

b*llocks

Didn't even mention Tadic's challenge either.

Jenas is still bitter about lasagnegate.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby OFT on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:39 am

Patito wrote:Jenas is still bitter about lasagnegate.

:)

I really hope he is.

To be fair I would happily poison all three of those in the MOTD studio last night.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby steps on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:40 am

The thing is, you look at teams spending millions on their defence and they're not really bringing experienced, ageing defenders in. While I think the balance has to be right, we currently have Fonte - age 33, Winston Reid (our best defender) - 29, contacted at the club for another 6 years, Ginge - age 33 and Ogbonna - age 29.

I don't suppose it'd hurt to get a younger CB, someone who'll challenge for the spot and learn from the elders. Also a bit of pace and awareness wouldn't go amiss.

Maybe Oxford could be that player, but we've been saying that for the last few seasons now.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Absolutely Hammered! on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:42 am

If I could find the Antonio thread I'd post it there but this guy had no pre season and was one of our best players yesterday. People say Slav isn't a fan because of his technical ability but the hunger and desire he shows in every game is admerable and massiveky outweighs any technical weaknesses. If arnie showed the same level of professionalism he'd be quality. People talk about first names on the team sheet and for me he comes in Along with lanzini and Chico. Top man with a top attitude.

He even brought a physio on his Vegas stag do ffs!
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Patito on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:51 am

OFT wrote: :)

I really hope he is.

To be fair I would happily poison all three of those in the MOTD studio last night.



He gets very wound up whenever it's brought up and rolls out all the excuses.

I normally quite like Danny Murphy as a pundit, seems like a boring human being though.

Still can't get my head around what Arnautovic was doing the clown. Really nasty foul that with his elbow out.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Patito on Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:52 am

Steps - you make a valid point, perhaps Rice will be that player this season?
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Sauce! on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:02 am

steps wrote:Maybe Oxford could be that player, but we've been saying that for the last few seasons now.


Clearly Bilic doesn't rate/trust him.

Reece was doing ok a couple of seasons ago, getting regular run-outs in the 1st team. Then he made one mistake (rolled by Lukaku away to Everton, yes THAT Lukaku ).
He was hooked at half time and we won the game 3-2.

Since then it's been a couple of cameos in the Europa League & lower league loans.

Then we spend £8M on journeyman Fonte. :thdn:

As the great George Benson once said:

I believe that children are our future
Teach them well and let them lead the way
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby the pink palermo on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:06 am

Sauce! wrote:.

Reece was doing ok a couple of seasons ago, getting regular run-outs in the 1st team. Then he made one mistake (rolled by Lukaku away to Everton, yes THAT Lukaku ).
He was hooked at half time and we won the game 3-2.


He made two serious errors that season, the first was at home against, from memory, Bournemouth , he stopped tracking his man a yard too soon, and he scored .

6 points .

Personally I don't think Oxford is going to make it at the highest level .
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby The Big Show on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:08 am

I was there yesterday. Eventful afternoon in the lower section of block 43. If you're going to give penalties in the 93rd minute to effectively decide a game they have to be 200% nailed on decisions. This decision was 50/50 at the very best. Sadly people like Mason love the attention and adulation of it all. They are completely in awe of the profile of the players and want some of the action themselves.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby MorthwylMawr on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:17 am

Having only watched the highlights,
they got a deserved pen and an iffy pen,
their first goal was too easy.
We should have had a pen
We were lucky that Nobes didn't walk.
Arnie was unprofessional deserved his red card and we will now pay the price.
The fight back was decent and both goals were well taken.
Jenas is still bitter
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby eastsider on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:23 am

Patito wrote:Just seen the MOTD "coverage" of our match.

b*llocks

Didn't even mention Tadic's challenge either.

Jenas is still bitter about lasagnegate.



Well unfortunately what else do we expect from the BBC these days??
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Sauce! on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:28 am

Sauce! wrote:Reece was doing ok a couple of seasons ago, getting regular run-outs in the 1st team. Then he made one mistake (rolled by Lukaku away to Everton, yes THAT Lukaku ).
He was hooked at half time and we won the game 3-2.


the pink palermo wrote:He made two serious errors that season, the first was at home against, from memory, Bournemouth , he stopped tracking his man a yard too soon, and he scored .

6 points .

Personally I don't think Oxford is going to make it at the highest level .


Pinky (is it ok to call you that?)

Not trying to be a smart-arse but it was the Leicester game (had to check with WestHamStats).

That was the only game Oxford lost playing in the C&B and, as I'm sure you know the main, nay, sole reason we lost that game was Anthony f&cking Taylor.

Alas you are probably right about him, but I'm just an old fashioned fan who likes to see home-grown talent flourish.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Puff Daddy on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:29 am

The Big Show wrote:I was there yesterday. Eventful afternoon in the lower section of block 43. If you're going to give penalties in the 93rd minute to effectively decide a game they have to be 200% nailed on decisions. This decision was 50/50 at the very best. Sadly people like Mason love the attention and adulation of it all. They are completely in awe of the profile of the players and want some of the action themselves.


Had it been at the other end, he wouldn't have given it. that is for sure. but it was one of those that was technically a penalty. Once he realised Ushida was presented with a good goalscoring chance, Zabaletta resorted to shoving Ushida in the back. On another day, with another ref, he will get away with that. From the replays. I don't know why Hart was caught on his line, that hopeful cross into our 6 yard box was made from near the half way line and there really was no need for him to have been stuck on his line. one step forwards and he could have either punched it away, or caught it.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:34 am

It was awful defending. A long punt up to a CB playing as a CF. Not hard to deal with it. Hart, Zabaleta, one of the CBs. Just get it done. Yoshida is hardly Gerd Muller so once he is wrong side just let him have a go. It was not an easy ball to head.
But yes Hart needs to come out and clatter them all tbf
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby the pink palermo on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:40 am

Sauce! wrote:Not trying to be a smart-arse but it was the Leicester game (had to check with WestHamStats).

That was the only game Oxford lost playing in the C&B and, as I'm sure you know the main, nay, sole reason we lost that game was Anthony f&cking Taylor.

Alas you are probably right about him, but I'm just an old fashioned fan who likes to see home-grown talent flourish.


So do I , I'd be delighted if he really broke through but he couldn't get in Jaap Stams line up last term, suggesting he's progressing slowly , if at all .It's matchday 1 in the Bundesliga this weekend and Borrusia play Cologne this evening , the likely line up list doesn't have him in it .
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby DaveRayleigh777 on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:40 am

There were a few inevitable negatives yesterday, but I really feel the positives outweigh them and we're going to have a strong season. Bold words I know given we're glued to the bottom, but the negs look fixable to me.
.
Negatives:
Arnie - stupid sending off, it's done, he's somewhat remorseful so hopefully he'll learn from it.
Nobes - still looking weak, will be resolved if we get the DM we're striving for as we speak.
Defence - overall weak but again this is due to a lack of protection from the midfield. Will hopefully be resolved with Carvalho or similar.
.
Positives:
Fight back - coming back from 2-0 down with 10 men. There is team spirit there, they've shown they can fight back. We rolled over much easier last season.
Strike force - Antonio & Hernandez are strong and we now know Pea hasn't lost his goal scoring instinct.
Margins - we weren't hammered by any means. The win was marginal, the ref was poor and they only scored once from open play. Could easily have gone either way.
Zaba - in spite of his last minute error, this guy has been a weapon. Talk of his age is unfair, he's bleeding claret & blue and has resolved a long term issue.
Bilic - some odd choices but whatever he said at half time, he pulled them together. He deserves our support (at least for now, I accept there are question marks over his tactical prowess but this will become clearer in time).
.
I'm a natural optimist, and yeah our faults being resolved is dependent on further success in the transfer window but we do at least know they are looking to strengthen the exact area where the weaknesses lie. This time last year, even with payet, we looked weak as kittens everywhere, at least now it's more specific, smaller improvements required.
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Re: Southampton vs West Ham United match thread

Postby Rio on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:44 am

As someone else said, it's amazing how 30 seconds can change the whole tone and nature of a thread.

Held it at 2-2 and we would have been buzzing about earning a point from that position and team spirit etc. etc.

Instead it's all doom and gloom and worked had collapsed. Hopefully on Cardiff's troll like fingers
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