Crystal Palace 2-2 West Ham Utd (28/10/17)
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- arlhe
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
I'm away for the week-end. My perspective on the game was taken from this thread.
My ManU supporting son in law, from I admit, a MOTD highlight said, 'pretty good game; West Ham played well'.
Doc has it spot on. Mass hysteria on this site, as ever.
My ManU supporting son in law, from I admit, a MOTD highlight said, 'pretty good game; West Ham played well'.
Doc has it spot on. Mass hysteria on this site, as ever.
- prophet:marginal
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Its perhaps instructive to note, too, that Palace were playing yesterday without their strongest CB (Sakho) or their top scorer (Benteke). They were also missing Wickham (who rivals some of our own on the unavailability front).
On the other side, though, this was a game they probably didn't dare lose.
TPP is right to note that they came a lot closer than us, in winning it, but, from the upper tier behind the goal in which both teams scored twice, our main problem was the absence of any real shield in front of defence. People are criticising Ogbonna for the penalty - and he did dive in towards a player who practically had his hands together praying for the contact - but the ball was somewhat needlessly given away in front of him and he was too slow to adjust.
At that point, the DM needed to come on, even if it was Rice in favour of Obiang (my personal choice).
We invited a desperate team onto us. They got their just desserts.
On the other side, though, this was a game they probably didn't dare lose.
TPP is right to note that they came a lot closer than us, in winning it, but, from the upper tier behind the goal in which both teams scored twice, our main problem was the absence of any real shield in front of defence. People are criticising Ogbonna for the penalty - and he did dive in towards a player who practically had his hands together praying for the contact - but the ball was somewhat needlessly given away in front of him and he was too slow to adjust.
At that point, the DM needed to come on, even if it was Rice in favour of Obiang (my personal choice).
We invited a desperate team onto us. They got their just desserts.
- Simply Moore
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
With all due respect to your friend, you really can’t get a fair representation of the game in a very brief clip on match of the day. The first half was a horrible turgid affair, two teams extremely short of confidence, looking like championship players at best. The goal was much needed and livened the game up from there but the first half on the whole was very hard to watch.
The second half was better and more exciting but it was all Palace and on balance of play they deserved at least a point, arguably all three. We need a shake up and soon! I’m sure we will be ok because we have enough in the squad to pick up the points we need but it really is poor.
The second half was better and more exciting but it was all Palace and on balance of play they deserved at least a point, arguably all three. We need a shake up and soon! I’m sure we will be ok because we have enough in the squad to pick up the points we need but it really is poor.
- the pink palermo
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Precisely .prophet:marginal wrote:.
from the upper tier behind the goal in which both teams scored twice, our main problem was the absence of any real shield in front of defence. People are criticising Ogbonna for the penalty - and he did dive in towards a player who practically had his hands together praying for the contact - but the ball was somewhat needlessly given away in front of him and he was too slow to adjust.
At that point, the DM needed to come on, even if it was Rice in favour of Obiang (my personal choice).
We invited a desperate team onto us. They got their just desserts.
That's the reason we lost .
The obvious subs to be made at 2-0 up at half time were obiang and Carroll on, Hernandez and Fernandes off .
Take the points on offer and kill the game .The fact Slaven chose not to do it is his greatest flaw .He keeps trying to win by 10 goals which we as supporters love .He's the professional and should be thinking more clearly .
- bubbles1966
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Doc, we played very poorly in the first half and managed to conjure up one good move and one great piece of individual attacking play to give us a 2-0 lead that had the odd distinction of being entirely what Palace deserved for being useless, whilst being hugely flattering to us when we were next to useless.Doc H Ball wrote:I think that's toss.
Without the needless penalty there was only one winner.
Hart's (very good on the day) first half double save included the luckiest, flukiest save a goalkeeper will ever make.
Our team was weak as piss and Zabaleta, Fonte, Noble and Hernandez (goal aside) were atrocious in the first half. Curiously, Ogbonna was the best player on the pitch by a country mile in the first 45 before his Titus Bramble moment in the second. Again, the ball was turned over carelessly in midfield to begin the break - that doesn't excuse Ogbonna, but it's a damning feature of our team.
- Korea Hammer
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
We're a mess at the back. We have conceded more penalties than any other team this season (all scored) and could easily have conceded more (Fonte yesterday, Hart's wipe out the other week), we have a constantly changing back line of ageing, leggy players lacking in confidence, a midfield that struggles to offer any protection and we have been more or less conceding two a game for a couple of years.
Yesterday was not just about two individual errors. They hit the woodwork twice, Hart made about 4 excellent saves, and a draw as the least they deserved. Two errors got punished, but there were many others that could have been (e.g. why was Tomkins completely alone on the edge of the 6 yard box for the header Hart tipped over?)
Those that say that equaliser wouldn't have happened under Sam are probably right. For all his shortcomings, it was noticeable when he arrived how our organisation and determination improved. Players were given strict, at times perhaps overly rigid, roles and instructions. These individual errors we've been having all season (whether it's Antonio not keeping it in the corner, or Kouyate getting caught out of position at Spurs) are also a consequence of a freer, less compact tactical set-up.
We've also become the traditional 'soft touch'. Needless penalties, leads thrown away, last gasp goals against us. I hope we keep Bilic for years, and I don't especially mind relegation. But at some point, he has to address our long-term problems in these areas. Bottom 6 all season, I suspect.
Yesterday was not just about two individual errors. They hit the woodwork twice, Hart made about 4 excellent saves, and a draw as the least they deserved. Two errors got punished, but there were many others that could have been (e.g. why was Tomkins completely alone on the edge of the 6 yard box for the header Hart tipped over?)
Those that say that equaliser wouldn't have happened under Sam are probably right. For all his shortcomings, it was noticeable when he arrived how our organisation and determination improved. Players were given strict, at times perhaps overly rigid, roles and instructions. These individual errors we've been having all season (whether it's Antonio not keeping it in the corner, or Kouyate getting caught out of position at Spurs) are also a consequence of a freer, less compact tactical set-up.
We've also become the traditional 'soft touch'. Needless penalties, leads thrown away, last gasp goals against us. I hope we keep Bilic for years, and I don't especially mind relegation. But at some point, he has to address our long-term problems in these areas. Bottom 6 all season, I suspect.
Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
I believe it was Noble's turnover in midfield that led to the penalty.
Also Fernandes is quite the confusing player - he can nail 60 yard cross-the-pitch passes but not hit his man 10 yards away.
Also Fernandes is quite the confusing player - he can nail 60 yard cross-the-pitch passes but not hit his man 10 yards away.
- Doc H Ball
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Pretty much all after the penalty.the pink palermo wrote:
While it's a maxim of football that goals change games I'm not sure I entirely agree with you Doc .
Hart was by far the busier keeper....
As I said, just like us on Wednesday. The penalty completely changed the game largely because it was so needless and affected our confidence.
I don't think we did play poorly first half. Ayew and Hernandez were causing them problems and we had 2 strikers playing close to and off each other for the first time in eons.
Their crowd was dead, ours were upbeat and it changed like a light switch.
- Doc H Ball
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Wouldn't happen under Sam?
f*** me, away games were like having your skin removed with a sharp shell when he was here.
Maybe there wouldn't have been an equaliser. Instead it would've been a **** draw or 1:0 loss.
f*** me, away games were like having your skin removed with a sharp shell when he was here.
Maybe there wouldn't have been an equaliser. Instead it would've been a **** draw or 1:0 loss.
- prophet:marginal
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
What Noble did was to intercept a pass meant for another player.swerley wrote:I believe it was Noble's turnover in midfield that led to the penalty.
Also Fernandes is quite the confusing player - he can nail 60 yard cross-the-pitch passes but not hit his man 10 yards away.
- Rio
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
You see this is what I love.the pink palermo wrote: Precisely .
That's the reason we lost .
The obvious subs to be made at 2-0 up at half time were obiang and Carroll on, Hernandez and Fernandes off .
Take the points on offer and kill the game .The fact Slaven chose not to do it is his greatest flaw .He keeps trying to win by 10 goals which we as supporters love .He's the professional and should be thinking more clearly .
Some saying we lost the points because we didn’t shut up shop. Some saying because we did. There’s a fine line between perceptions.
I know who’s opinion I trust more. I know sometimes who shouts loudest has the least to truly say
- the pink palermo
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- westham,eggyandchips
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Did we?! :shock:the pink palermo wrote:
Precisely .
That's the reason we lost .
Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
The fact of the matter is - We have been screaming for a proper, strong, composed and disciplined DM for two seasons and Sullivan used the pretend signing of one to undermine his manager with, whilst he bathed in the adoration of signing England's no 1 GK and two "big name" forwards! Even when the writing was on the wall before the transfer window closed our DOF was sunning himself in Spain at the most important week of the season - Happy to right off another "sell out season" .Now , we have a manager that has no real voice or respect from his players and is just getting through the last months of his contract and a , most probable, stampede of our decent players to get the f*** out of this ownership created shitstorm!
- the pink palermo
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Very good, I've made a typo, but it sure felt like one , and come May it may effectively be one .westham,eggyandchips wrote:Did we?! :shock:
Let's not kid ourselves , we've got thrashed at home by Brighton, drawn away to Palace, got thrashed at Newcastle .
We are not playing well, are not accruing enough points against sides that most will fancy their chances against and are facing a bottom 6 campaign .
We're sleepwalking in to a relegation scrap .Now, as it turns out , I'd rather that than mid table curbs zone boredom , but to surrender the two points on offer as we did yesterday was a shocker , and it wasn't just down to two errors by 2 players .
The post, the bar and numerous saves by Hart were needed to get a point .How busy was their keeper ?
- Doc H Ball
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Didn't lose, scored 5 and conceded 4 in 2 difficult away games in 4 days with an ultimatum issued to the manager.
I'm enjoying it. Our Slav's got balls.
I'm enjoying it. Our Slav's got balls.
- ballantine
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
That's not how i saw it yesterday. While I agree with the proposed subs (and said so on here, so not just hindsight), I feel like we were not too intent on attacking. Rather, we backed all the way into our on box, just inviting pressure again and again. Whether that was down to instruction, nerves or ability, i don't know.the pink palermo wrote:The obvious subs to be made at 2-0 up at half time were obiang and Carroll on, Hernandez and Fernandes off .
Take the points on offer and kill the game .The fact Slaven chose not to do it is his greatest flaw .He keeps trying to win by 10 goals which we as supporters love .He's the professional and should be thinking more clearly .
If anything, we should have risked more going forwards to kill the game with our third. We didn't take our counter opportunities, messed about with short free kicks at the edge of their box and so on.
As for subs, Cresswell off must have been down to a knock or him being knackered. Zab off made sense as he was on a yellow and struggled with their pace. And then Bilic wanted to do Obiang<>Fernandes, but Fonte got injured. So Bilic had limited opportunities.
- bubbles1966
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
TBF, we scored 5 goals in 90 minutes between the second half on Wednesday and first half yesterday - that is some going and deserves a bit of creditDoc H Ball wrote:Didn't lose, scored 5 and conceded 4 in 2 difficult away games in 4 days with an ultimatum issued to the manager.
I'm enjoying it. Our Slav's got balls.
We just need to iron out the moments of stupidity and madness that are killing us.
Penalties, sending offs etc are off the scale compared to the rest of the league. I read something a few moments ago that said something similar about 'errors'.
I know a few think I'm mad, but imo this team is so close to being able to get much better results, it's frustrating.
We're shooting ourselves in the foot, repeatedly.
- Rio
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
Not at all. I trust your opinion more than most, as do many on this site. It’s the wild swing in perceptions across the support that is interesting. As is the timing of said commentsthe pink palermo wrote:Well that's me told off .
- Wilko1304
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Re: Crystal Palace v West Ham Utd: match thread
He has got balls, and the players do seem to muster something when it’s needed, but he might not have the points we need.
Thought he was hamstrung by enforced substitutions, as well as Masuaku showing the worst defensive display I may have seen since Carl Jenkinson effectively retired on the pitch.
Nice to see clinical players in our team though. Two goals of the highest quality, scored by arguably our two most intelligent players.
Thought he was hamstrung by enforced substitutions, as well as Masuaku showing the worst defensive display I may have seen since Carl Jenkinson effectively retired on the pitch.
Nice to see clinical players in our team though. Two goals of the highest quality, scored by arguably our two most intelligent players.