Everton 4-0 West Ham United (29/11/17)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Crossd_Hammrs on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:07 pm

sutts07 wrote:I don't know what the answer is but I assume Moyes will have to look at wing backs (five at the back) with two up top now.


I've just watched the MOTD highlights and from those I can't see how the fullbacks are to blame for any of the goals:
Goal One, the attacker waltzed straight through the middle and was brought down by an over-eager Hart (adding his antics for the third goal, I wonder if he is trying to play as a sweeper keeper these days).
Goal Two, not for the first time, nor second or third time, in fact consistently for about a season, Kouyate plainly doesn't bother to chase back - Rooney ran straight past him and left him for dead. Kouyate gives up before the ball is crossed. This is the only goal where the full back area is used, behind Cresswell, but Obiang is covering.
Goal Three, a comedy of errors, a miskick, then Hart rushes out perhaps not trusting his two defenders, plays a poor clearance down the middle (why down the middle?) that Kouyate (I think) makes minimal effort as it goes past him to Rooney. Neither defender has run back to cover the goal.
Goal Four, Antonio seems hell-bent on blocking Rice!

Truly terrible defending, but I'm not sure adding a third central defender will cure any of the issues.
Too many players have been lazy for too long. Kouyate I've mentioned. Antonio has been a pale shadow of the workhorse we loved in his first season, in fact he's looked a liability in the last few matches. Ogbonna... I still don't get him, Obiang is not a defensive midfielder, he showed that against Leicester two seasons ago. He looks clueless in the build-up to the first two goals and nowhere to be seen after that.

We might as well start playing the youngsters. They'll be hungry and keen and seems to be severely lacking in the first team at the moment. Is Byram any worse than Zabaleta? Could Zabaleta play centre back? Rice can't be worse than Ogbonna, or even Reid on recent performances.
Last edited by Crossd_Hammrs on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby sutts07 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:12 pm

Adding a third centre back takes some of the tracking responsibility away from Kouyate.

Obviously in football you have to go with your runners etc, but to be fair, it is not his job to mark Rooney. Reid and Ogbonna had been pulled out of position too.

As I said, they were all terrible. Kouyate and Obiang were the worst I have seen them in terms of effort and ability. The number of passes that went astray or out of play was unreal.
Last edited by sutts07 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Hammer.CA on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:18 pm

Another game to file in the memory banks along with Grimsby, Cambridge, Wrexham etc.
Took me almost 3 1/2 hours to get there from Leicester on my own. Parked miles away on the other side of Anfield, haven't been up there for about 10 years or so, what a chastening sight that was. I remembered a stadium surrounded by streets of terraced houses, now it stands alone with pictures looking down on you of events, famous past players, museum and even a dedicated kids supporters play area complete with merchandise outlets. Just shows what can be done if owners and local council have the inclination to celebrate the history of a club invest and develop the area. Down to Goodison and you can tell it's their home right across from Stanley Park, ok its not what the owners want and they will move on to a purpose built football stadium but everything close by lets you know you're at Everton.
I was right at the very front with that tosser Sky cameraman jumping up every 5 minutes, modern football where a viewer is more important than the fan watching the game live. From the opening minutes where Cresswell sliced the ball up in the air and then ballsed up the thrown in I just knew. Passing the ball back, no invention, nothing. Lanzini who should be the best thing about the team having to come deep in to his own half to collect the ball because the midfield is clueless. I knew Rooney was going to get to the penalty rebound first, wasn't difficult to realise from my viewpoint and I was certain that Lanzini would miss. The support for the team was as good as ever, no slagging the manager despite the dross we watched. I would love one of the people who told me Arnie would come good to explain to me what it is he does, his effort is enough to make it look as if he's bothered. Hart couldn't distribute leaflets and the rest just as bad.
I went to Wycombe on Tuesday, if anybody thinks Samuelson or any of the others is worth a try, they're not.
That, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls is a relegation team with a relegation manager.
I watched the Sky programme on Di Canio before I left yesterday, right at the end he said, I can't remember exactly what he said "If I'm the manager you do it my way, I am right, no arguing you do it my way, that's it". I don't care what his politics are, what colour his cat is, I want someone who tells the players how it is and after a whirlwind ride maybe it doesn't work and he's gone he'd tell us like it is working for the 3 Stooges, I'd love to go on that ride.
ABGSB.
oh and I pulled my calf just as I got to the ground, lovely walk back to the car and then listening to Rooney and Co on the radio, cracking night. :scarfer:
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Crossd_Hammrs on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:22 pm

sutts07 wrote:Adding a third centre back takes some of the tracking responsibility away from Kouyate.

To be fair, it is not his job to mark Rooney.


Surely you mark any man that runs past you and into space in the box?
A third centre back would have struggled to pick Rooney up without leaving a gaping hole in the defence as his (Rooney's) run was from somewhere near the halfway line.

I'm not sure we can afford to be too defence minded now though - draws won't get us enough points to stay up, although a draw last night would have helped keep Everton down there with us.

What do we play for in the next three games? Solid defence and hope to get something on a counter attack? Or do go for broke in these games where we are expected to lose, but try to prevent our relegation rivals from picking up three points against us by setting up for a draw?
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby duncanio on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:24 pm

Good read Hammer CA. I'm a big DiCanio fan but could only see that ending badly. :thup:
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Hammer.CA on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:25 pm

I forgot to mention, when the Anti Board flag went on show further along the row from where I was, after a few minutes an Everton steward asked me to move as he'd got to take the flag down. I asked him why and he said it was causing an obstruction, I told him it was obstructing anything and wouldn't let him past, he just went back to where hes stood. Somebody must have told him to do that because he would't have noticed at the angle where he was standing.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Hammer.CA on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:26 pm

duncanio wrote:Good read Hammer CA. I'm a big DiCanio fan but could only see that ending badly. :thup:


It's going to end/has already ended badly as things stand, might as well have some entertainment on the way. Football is part of the entertainment industry these days apparently.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby somerset-hammer on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:30 pm

To be fair, Di Canio to the end of the season, wouldn't do any worse than Moyes.

At the very least he would, show passion, kick a few backsides and demand that we attack every game.

The current regime would never appoint him though.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby sutts07 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:37 pm

Crossd_Hammrs wrote:I'm not sure we can afford to be too defence minded now though - draws won't get us enough points to stay up, although a draw last night would have helped keep Everton down there with us.


We can't give away two goal leads in every game either.

Very valid points re tracking, I am not exonerating Koutyate from blame at all and had actually edited my post to say the same.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby ads78 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:58 pm

The spine of the team is weak and lack discipline, passion and courage.

Ogbonna and Kouyate should both be nowhere near a team that needs to be fighting for every point. Ogbonna is just a liability and Kouyate lacks the discipline to be a top class footballer.

Bring Rice in for Ogbonna and Noble in for Kouyate. I would also consider bringing Collins in for Reid once Collins is fit. We need to battle for everything and be prepared to put bodies on the line & if necessary kick lumps out of the opposition - sadly the position we are in we need to become a horrible team!

As someone has already said, it would be better to watch the likes of Vaz Te, Nolan & Collison at least giving 100% for the shirt rather than watching what we have become.

We are also desperately missing Antonio and the outlet that his pace gives us.

With everyone fit I would line up something along the lines of:

----------------------Hart
Zabaletta - Collins - Rice - Cresswell
--------------Obiang - Noble
-------------------Lanzini
------------Antonio------Ayew
-------------------Sakho

The most dissapointing aspect of all of this is that in thinking about the side that I'd like to see play, our two big summer signings don't figure in the best 11. We have spent £40 on players that are good players but either don't fit our system (Chico) or are not clearly upgrades on what we already have (Arnie).

If only we had spent that money upgrading our DM and at least one of our FBs we would not be in this position. Although, knowing us, if we had done that, every striker at the club would have been struck down with a season ending ailment!!!!!
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby One Peter Butler on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:02 pm

Fortunately the next few games will offer the opportunity for Desparate Dave to play 10 at the back.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby sjb958 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:08 pm

I think after this game I have just consigned myself to relegation.

We are an absolute shambles. And most of our players don't care about our club enough to be bothered about going down in my opinion. Reminds me of QPR that year - just a team of misfits.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Humbug on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:12 pm

Briggsy wrote:We just look all over the place at the moment. I'm starting to wonder if our players are even footballers any more. We look like we are playing with a bunch of savio's. Yes I blame the board & I don't want Moyes here, but the players....

Zabaleta - Good going forward but looks like an OAP at times, out of positon, can't run. There's no point him playing right back as he's too exposed.

Reid, Fonte - Kind of just stand there not doing much, look disinterested.

Ogbonna - This bloke is literally Gary Breen.

Cresswell - Turned into Schemmel (Yes I know he was a right back), absolutely cannot defend.

Kouyate - What on Earth is this bloke? he isn't a footballer I don't think. He's turned into Diame.

Obiang - See all of the above.

Fernandes - lol

Lanzini - Tries but looks completely lost.

Arnautovic - Hopefully the turning point over the last few games, but I'm not expecting much.

Antonio - Lazy, terrible decision maker.

Masuaku - Good crosser & dribbler, but hasn't got a clue about positioning & is completely and utterly clueless when it comes to defending. Doesn't help the defence when playing LB, doesn't help the LB when playing LM. An easy target for opposition.

Carroll - Lazy, looks completely fed up. 0 goals this season.

Sakho - **** him, the ****


I'm totally in agreement with this which just leaves us with the U23's , Adrian, Ginge , Chic , Noble (whose legs are gone) and a Championship player Byram. All the rest have an endemic disease of individual errors ingrained in their DNA because they don't support each other enough. Honestly , I do have my suspicions that certain groups of players dislike others and there is complete disunity within our squad . I don't know if its a clash of personalities, the 'blame game' or just plain vindictiveness and jealousy but we do not play or gel as a football team (that is very clear). Whenever I hear the players say we must 'stay strong' , 'take collective responsibility' , ' only we can turn things around' , etc etc , it all seems like verbal 'crocodile tears' completely insincere, just spouting empty words. All it suggests is the complete opposite , that 'we are weak' , 'we shirk our responsibilities' , 'other players need to turn it around, not me' . Its a disgrace that we have mega millionaire players whose primary objective is getting more pay for doing as little as possible. Just keep shrugging their shoulders, waving their arms at each other and sulking in a corner somewhere feeling sorry for themselves (what a bunch of pansies).
Last edited by Humbug on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby DasNutNock on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:13 pm

sjb958 wrote:Reminds me of QPR that year - just a team of misfits.


Most of this team finished 7th in the Prem 18 months ago. Clearly, we were a bit of a one-man team when Payet was here, but the core of this squad hasn't changed dramatically in that time.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby sutts07 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:13 pm

sjb958 wrote:I think after this game I have just consigned myself to relegation.


Two points from safety, Swansea, Palace, WBA and Huddersfield all looking every bit as bad as us and it is only November.

Not quite time to resign ourselves to anything yet. It is a worry, but we are not exactly doomed just yet.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Crossd_Hammrs on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:14 pm

sutts07 wrote:We can't give away two goal leads in every game either.


That's true.
But what if we could get ahead by two goals instead. Sadly, that just doesn't seem likely at the moment.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Cardiff here we come..... on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:20 pm

il_martello_di_genovesi wrote:That performance last night showed that none of them give two ****'s. Moyes will get the blame as he's unpopular, but last night is all on the players for me. At this moment in time they don't deserve our support. I'd be quite happy to not go again this season and come back fresh for the Championship. The days where Kevin Nolan, Jack Collison and Ricardo Vaz Te would be putting in 100% and leaving everything they could on the pitch. Where was that last night? No passion, no fight and that is the season under Grant all over again.



You're spot on :thup:

Dream appointment was Moyes for 'these' players as they will blame him, if they get relegation. 'Get out of jail card' .As I said yesterday. They are cowardly, money grabbing sl*gs & I want no connection with these t*ssers.

This January transfer window is make or break. We need to sign the calibre of player you mentioned above. No world beaters just 100℅ leave it all on the pitch type individuals. Our players are p*ssies. Disrespectful at that eg Laughing at the final whistle. Pr*cks.

First player I would get in is James Milner. I'm sorry Cresswell has turned into a mess. What has happened to him? Zabaleta's legs have gone. He's finished. Bring in Byram. If Collins was back, I would have him + Rice as centre back. Adrian to replace Hart.
Sakho + Martinez up front. See if Ayew finds it funny sitting on the bench till May.

Gone past playing our best, most skillful players. Starting line up is players that we can at least rely on that will give us, the club 100℅.

Committed, Passion, Fight? Non Existent. Just a bunch of overpaid zombies, going through the motions.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby StackerJJ on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:22 pm

DasNutNock wrote:Most of this team finished 7th in the Prem 18 months ago. Clearly, we were a bit of a one-man team when Payet was here, but the core of this squad hasn't changed dramatically in that time.

Since then, Cresswell new long term contract, Ogbonna new long term contract, Reid new long term contract, Obiang new long term contract, Antonio new long term contract, Kouyate new long term contract.

Replaced Payet with Snodgrass, sign Fonte on more money than he ever has and ever will earn, Arnie on more money than he ever has and ever will earn. Signed Joe Hart on HUGE wages when we had ZERO need for him.

Where is their incentive to be a success? Do they care if we get relegated? Can they move on easy enough and still receive a decent sum (singing on bonus and wages) its grim in my eyes, they are paying huge money for mediocrity and promoting the fact that they are paying huge wages. Its grim to say the least.
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Nick W on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:25 pm

Status Kev wrote:Truly awful first half.

I can't help thinking if we had started the first half like we did the second it could have been a completely different outcome.

Same story every game nearly
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Re: Everton -v West Ham United - Match Thread

Postby Johnny Byrne's Boots on Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:29 pm

I asked further back up the thread if the players went over to the supporters after the game.

This from the Opposition View

"Don't know if anyone else noticed but at the end of game, Moyes came on the pitch
and walked over to the West Ham fans, applauding them. The reaction he received was pure gold, he received every obscene gesture under the sun from the West Ham fans,
funny to see."
- royalblue66
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