West Ham Utd 2-3 Newcastle Utd (23/12/17)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby OFT on Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:23 pm

If only we'd agreed to Sky wanting this playing on Christmas eve, we'd still be in with a chance of winning it!
:P
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:20 pm

Hugh Jargon II wrote:Did anyone see antonio on itvs attempt at sky's league of their own?

Put it this way...if he played for anyone than us I would have classed him as an obnoxious conceited ****er.

I suspect he has been "got at" with his brief flirtation with the England squad. He will be off soon I suspect.

Chalks gets this stuff right and that being the case we need to shift this bloke on asap before he stinks the place out.

He was abject yesterday but he wasn't alone because we were abject yesterday.

One player cut the mustard - Arnie and two I will absolve from blame despite a terrible, terrible penalty and no end product respectively - Ayew and Arthur - neither of whom hid and both of whom tried even if it wasn't to the same effect as the class above Austrian.

Other than that I saw no positives yesterday, no plan, no obvious style of play out there - a criticism of the previous manager and one that continues to yesterday. There was just no rhyme or reason. Individuals doing their own thing - little if any teamwork - Lanzini seems the only one who can help transform the disparate into the united, and we have zero cover for him - criminal. Even the huff and puff last half hour never looked like it would pay off. Two little quality, guile or precision to deserve reward. Lumping to Carroll year after year after year. And some say we're in the elite.

And this against a dreadful team who must have had more clear cut chances in this game than in any other this season. Three goals conceded, the woodwork unluckily hit twice and clear cut chances spurned. If we could have had three or four, not through our brilliance, but through sheer desperate pressure / poor defending on their part then they could have had seven on another day.

Adrien was Hart-esque for the first goal - should never have been beaten from there. I do wonder if he is one of those players who plays best when he's hungry and has someone to prove, someone to oust. Another Antonio whose attitude was spot on before he felt he'd 'made it' and lost his head. The mix up for the third was sheer black comedy - two players neither of whom wanted to take control when had either done so the situation (I first wrote 'danger' there but there was no danger until we screwed up) would have been easily dealt with.

Yesterday we got what we deserved having deliberately taken our foot off the gas mid-week. It's hard to go from 20mph to 60mph again just like that and therefore a home defeat to a dreadful team like that was fair comeuppance.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:27 pm

Oh, and Kouyate is not a football player. An athlete yes, but not a footballer.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby prophet:marginal on Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:52 pm

rossmundo wrote:Zabaleta...over-rated nightmare of a player. Shouldn't be anywhere near the team.


About half a dozen of posters recently voted him their player of the season so far.

The worst thing about his signing is the almost complete absence of any competitor for his place.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby SammyLeeWasOffside on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:06 pm

DaveWHU1964 wrote:Oh, and Kouyate is not a football player. An athlete yes, but not a footballer.

Been saying for 18 months we have too many that fit that profile. Only at west ham could we so many athletes that can only run in one direction though.

Merry Xmas by the way Dave. And indeed to all of you.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby bristolhammerfc on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:10 pm

Got caned on here in the summer for saying we should sell Kouyate
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:12 pm

We had a "footballer" at right back who got murdered by an "athlete". The game was lost in that bit of the pitch.

Hernandez, Noble, Rice all started in the reverse fixture. We got walloped 0-3.

We lack a genuine, high quality all round midfield player. But we all knew that in the summer.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby taffhammer on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:13 pm

Anyone else think the free kick that led to their goal was for dangerous play ? isn't that an indirect free kick ?
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby taffhammer on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:17 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:We had a "footballer" at right back who got murdered by an "athlete". The game was lost in that bit of the pitch.

Hernandez, Noble, Rice all started in the reverse fixture. We got walloped 0-3.

We lack a genuine, high quality all round midfield player. But we all knew that in the summer.


Their manager worked out our weakness from the first game and went with pace. We haven't got any.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby aitchayell on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:41 pm

I still haven’t dealt with the anger that I felt at the final whistle yesterday. I have been ill all week and thought that I wouldn’t be fit enough to go to the game but I decided at the eleventh hour to go and support my team.It involved a 10 hour round trip and for what? All I saw was another clueless performance from overpaid under skilled players who are barely fit to wear the shirt. And how many similar performances have we seen over the last 18 months? Performances with no zip, no effort, no strategy, no cutting edge. How long does it take for us to move the ball forward? An age, an absolute age. Moyes set up that team for an away performance but we were at home. There’s so much wrong I don’t know where to start so I won’t. But I am taking a break. I have had enough. After supporting West Ham for 65 years I need one.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby SammyLeeWasOffside on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:52 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:We had a "footballer" at right back who got murdered by an "athlete". The game was lost in that bit of the pitch.

Hernandez, Noble, Rice all started in the reverse fixture. We got walloped 0-3.

We lack a genuine, high quality all round midfield player. But we all knew that in the summer.

Their athlete can pass it as well though. Kouyate, Obiang, Antonio et al seem more likely to run out of play or shin a pass to nobody. You need pace and power in the PL these days but its pointless if you can't do anything with the ball.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:05 pm

SammyLeeWasOffside wrote:Their athlete can pass it as well though. Kouyate, Obiang, Antonio et al seem more likely to run out of play or shin a pass to nobody. You need pace and power in the PL these days but its pointless if you can't do anything with the ball.


I agree Sam - the players need to combine athleticism with technique. We have a few that have one or the other - and they have all been exposed this year.

The Newcastle games are a perfect illustration - people are now calling for the same technical players who got thrashed by Newcastle in August.

We don't have many who combine technique and physical prowess. Arnautovic is a rare example in our ranks of a player who has both athleticism and technique. Still, it was only a month ago that this place was rife with people wanting him out. Now he's on a completely different level to all our players except Lanzini.

We are where we are in the table because we started so badly. Yesterday's performance was not even remotely bad in comparison to at least half a dozen others this season.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby prophet:marginal on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:14 pm

I defer to the fact that you watch it from the stands, Bubbs, but that's surely a touch over-exaggerated?

NUFC were not struggling to make chances against us, yesterday, evidenced by the fact that they could easily have scored, instead of more than once hitting the woodwork. Indeed, from the highlights, they were slicing through us with ease.

I'm resigned, personally, to the idea that we aren't set up to take the game to the big boys, but 6-2 on aggregate to a team that has just been promoted?

Looked like a fairly bad day at the office, with a team with real structural flaws in it. Not only is the squad imbalanced, but we can't even incorporate some of the most recent signings
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby SammyLeeWasOffside on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:19 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:We are where we are in the table because we started so badly. Yesterday's performance was not even remotely bad in comparison to at least half a dozen others this season.

It was certainly better than some of the non events earlier, it was similar to quite a lot of other defeats though. Played ok, gave away stupid goals (the 2nd was as keystone cops as anything earlier in the year).
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby bubbles1966 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:30 pm

prophet:marginal wrote:NUFC were not struggling to make chances against us, yesterday, evidenced by the fact that they could easily have scored, instead of more than once hitting the woodwork. Indeed, from the highlights, they were slicing through us with ease.


Both teams could have scored more than they did and yes, we had real trouble coping at times. A lot of their stuff stemmed from long diagonals to Joselu who we didn't deal with all game.

We never dealt with him at theirs or with Atsu either.

My point mainly though is that the 'footballers' who people are suggesting would have made a difference all played up at theirs - yet we got walloped 0-3 with just one or two shots on target if memory serves.

We lack players who possess all round ability.

I'm sure Cresswell played ahead of Collins yesterday because no one else can be trusted to take a corner.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:43 pm

I preferred yesterday's game to Huddersfield, Swansea and even Arsenal at home
At least we tried to play some football and score some goals. We were let down by individual errors, poor tactics and some downright awful performances (moat notably kouayate)

If Ayew scored that penalty we woukd have likely won 3-2 and everyone happy
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby DaveWHU1964 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:59 pm

Beyond the individual performances of no more than four players (I'm being kind) I'm amazed anyone can find any positives from yesterday. It was a mess. And no wonder. We have a hotch potch of a squad which has less depth than last season and a lack of like for like replacements.

Players that seem to be here not because they fit a designated (I wish) style of play but that are here because they were on cheap or could be used to placate a manager who didn't get his first choice as often as he wanted. Basically, it's a very poor squad, not necessarily by our past standards but by the standards of the PL and what it should be given the amount of money sloshing around this league.

You could easily put up strong arguments for getting rid of at least a third of them. The trouble is who would we replace them with even if we could shift them? With a weak, grateful manager at the helm and the history of the last few windows I'd have to put money on more of the same.

The table doesn't lie. 17th isn't down to bad luck or the old manager - I saw nothing different in yesterday's 'performance' to many of those under Bilic earlier this season.

We will finish below the team of O'Neil, O'Brien, Diame, Jarvis and Maiga because that at least was a team created by a manager with a plan (a dull, safe one yes, but a plan nonetheless) and not the 'team' that contained far too many randoms seemingly without a full brief on what was expected of them yesterday.
Last edited by DaveWHU1964 on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby Diogenes on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:00 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:I preferred yesterday's game to Huddersfield, Swansea and even Arsenal at home
At least we tried to play some football and score some goals. We were let down by individual errors, poor tactics and some downright awful performances (moat notably kouayate)

If Ayew scored that penalty we woukd have likely won 3-2 and everyone happy

That's how I saw it Crouchend. I quite enjoyed the game and I didn't think we played as bad as some do. Indeed, I thought the result was down to some very poor individual 'pantomime' defending from the usual suspects. However, even given that, I thought we were the better team throughout. The result could easily have been 5-5. Disappointing - yes. Our worse performance? Far from it.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby prophet:marginal on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:52 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:We lack players who possess all round ability.


Its worse than that, because whilst your concern is accurate, we are not alone with an unbalanced squad.

We have an additional lacking, in that we have no real team ethic or spirit, either.

There's this lingering feeling, sadly, that we have a collection of what seemed at the time to be good ideas, who nobody seems capable of forming into a proper unit.

I said here recently that Moyes seems to have worked out that, for creativity, we need Lanzini and Arnautovic, with Masuaku capable of getting and bringing the ball forward.

Their potency is apparently impossible to replicate, in the absence of just one of them.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Newcastle Utd: match thread

Postby brownout on Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:03 pm

[/quote]

We have an additional lacking, in that we have no real team ethic or spirit, either.

.[/quote]

We did at Stoke and at home to Arsenal & Chelsea. We lost the momentum by throwing the Arsenal cup game.
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