Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 West Ham Utd (04/01/18)

[steps]

Crouchend, we were only a non-threat going forward on the counter because Hernandez couldn’t do the task he’d been asked to do.

We looked a lot better going forward when Ayew come on.

But Moyes has took a lot of stick for not playing Hernandez lately, what’s he to do?

[jacko]

I think I could deal with it if we were a better counter attacking side. We really lack in that area due to the fact we have no pace.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

[
It's not a competition to see how many times you can enter the opposition's penalty area in a game like that, it's about how many you can score.

We got a point by tactically outsmarting the opposition. I suppose you'd prefer to go down losing but playing an open, tactically naive game?

I wouldn't agree that parking 10 men behind the ball is tactically outsmarting the opposition

There are shades of grey. It is not all out attack or non-attack as the only options

You can be defensively orientated, compact and organised without resorting to simply booting it upfield to the opposition for 60 minutes

How we played vs Man City away two seasons ago, or Chelsea at home this year, or how we played against Spurs last year, both home and away, or even Man U away in the league last year are examples of solid defensive displays that, for me, don't cross the line to out and out 'anti-football'

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Burnley beat Liverpool with just 19.4% possession... the lowest amount since Premier League records began

I watched that game. They may not have had much possession, but they certainly got forward on occasions

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Burnley beat Liverpool with just 19.4% possession... the lowest amount since Premier League records began

I watched that game. They may not have had much possession, but they certainly got forward on occasions

[Carlton'sGoal]

Chelsea at home this year

We played last night pretty much exactly how we played Chelsea, only difference is we got an early goal so we had something to hold on to.

[goa127]

It's not really true that we didn't counter attack. Our attempts to move up the pitch failed because Hernandez was unable to hold the ball up. As soon as Ayew came on midfielders were able to get further up the pitch. This was what led to our goal, in part because Spurs had not woken up to new threat. Southampton came here a week or to ago and conceded 5. I can imagine the responses if we'd done that. Without Arnie or Antonio to take the ball upfield we were severely restricted in our tactical options. We did not however pick up a string of yellow cards with stop-at-all cost tackles, we managed to stay focused and avoided dangerous free-kick situations around the box. Full marks for the much maligned midfield last night, Kouyate looked like the player of a couple of years ago, Obiang (wonder goal apart) was sharp and neat, Noble was, well Noble. Arthur flickered now and again but was having to be a bit more restrained than usual.

[RichieRiv]

I wouldn't agree that parking 10 men behind the ball is tactically outsmarting the opposition'

Of course it is.

It's down to the opposition to change their tactics to counter. If the opposition fail to do that, then they have by definition been outsmarted.

On Talksport last night the callers were overwhelmingly Spurs fans. All but one put their hands up and said West Ham did a great job and Pochettino was at fault for failing to make the right changes.

[Simply Moore]

I think I could deal with it if we were a better counter attacking side. We really lack in that area due to the fact we have no pace.

Agree with that.

Sakho would have been the man for the Hernandez job last night which would have given us more going forward but unfortunately he’s a bellend.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Crouchend, we were only a non-threat going forward on the counter because Hernandez couldn’t do the task he’d been asked to do.

We looked a lot better going forward when Ayew come on.

But Moyes has took a lot of stick for not playing Hernandez lately, what’s he to do?

You can't counter attack if not a single player gets forward
To counter attack you need quick passing to feet and players getting forward. Hernandez can't be expected to bring down balls fired at his head, hold it up for half an hour until someone gets near him, with four or five spurs players on his back

We could have done a whole host of things to make life easier for Hernandez - push the wing backs on, play Noble further forward, play Ayew instead of Kouyate, not defend the edge of the box with a line of 8

Yes Moyes was limited with what he had available, but he did have some options not to play with as little attacking intent as he did, and even with the players available they could have been more adventurous

Would we have got a point? Who knows, probably not, but at least we wouldn't have sunk to that low level

He did the same vs Arsenal both home and away as well

[Crouchend_Hammer]

[

We played last night pretty much exactly how we played Chelsea, only difference is we got an early goal so we had something to hold on to.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree here

[steps]

Ok, let’s have it right then, no team has ever played a game like we did in the entire history of football.

We have literally plummed the depths and set a new precedent with our retched evels of anti-football last night.

:lol:

I can hear a pub lunch calling.

[Crouchend_Hammer]

Ok, let’s have it right then, no team has ever played a game like we did in the entire history of football.

We have literally plummed the depths and set a new precedent with our retched evels of anti-football last night.

:lol:

I can hear a pub lunch calling.

i can't remember a premier league game, certainly not this season anyway

But regardless of that, if you are satisfied with west ham playing that way. Fair enough. That is your opinion and perfectly valid

I, and it seems a couple of others (albeit a minority) are not, regardless of points accumulated

[RichieRiv]

Ok, let’s have it right then, no team has ever played a game like we did in the entire history of football.

We have literally plummed the depths and set a new precedent with our retched evels of anti-football last night.

:lol:

I can hear a pub lunch calling.

Only if you are a West Ham fan and frequent KUMB.

Can I come?

[westlondonhammer]

I wouldn't agree that parking 10 men behind the ball is tactically outsmarting the opposition

There are shades of grey. It is not all out attack or non-attack as the only options

You can be defensively orientated, compact and organised without resorting to simply booting it upfield to the opposition for 60 minutes

How we played vs Man City away two seasons ago, or Chelsea at home this year, or how we played against Spurs last year, both home and away, or even Man U away in the league last year are examples of solid defensive displays that, for me, don't cross the line to out and out 'anti-football'

We didn't just park 10 men behind the ball and kept booting it forward. That is oversimplifying (and undermining) a strong tactical performance and completely ignores the shades of grey you are talking about. It also ignore individuals performances and the end result.

It's interesting that you bring up the Chelsea game (which was very similar in stats and performance, however we were at home and had the luxury of a few more fit players). Can you explain to me how that was different and how that wasn't driven by the players available and the tactics instead? 31% possession, 2 shots on target (3 off)

Was it pretty? Not at times. Was it effective? Completely. Are you oversimplifying everything to try to make a sensationalized derisory point? Completely.

[sharphammer]

the way I see it is, horses for courses.

Open up and play expansive football we get thumped, 4 or 5, no doubt.

Wasn't pretty but needs must, that point could be the difference but could keep us up come May.

I'm not happy nor unhappy with the way we played, but i'm happy with the point.

Same applies for the Arnautovic hamstring niggle that people mentioned before the game, if he wasn't absolutely 100% fit then not playing him was the correct decision.

the way he's been playing he could also be the difference between staying up or going down, playing last night, doing a hammy and missing two months could've been devastating.

As it is, we had no arnie, we nicked a draw, we managed the situation correctly.

Which is what a good manager does.

We could've risked arnie, went gung ho, he goes of injured, lose 5-0.

none of the above happened, be grateful!

[taffhammer]

Lets be realistic, every team in the bottom half of the table plays the same way as we did when playing a top six side. We just defended very well and got them on the sucker punch.

Well done Moyes ,you got it spot on last night. Evactly the right tactics for our current level.

[DasNutNock]

Junksh - no chance of an Opposition View for this one?

[Crouchend_Hammer]

We didn't just park 10 men behind the ball and kept booting it forward. That is oversimplifying (and undermining) a strong tactical performance and completely ignores the shades of grey you are talking about. It also ignore individuals performances and the end result.

It's interesting that you bring up the Chelsea game (which was very similar in stats and performance, however we were at home and had the luxury of a few more fit players). Can you explain to me how that was different and how that wasn't driven by the players available and the tactics instead? 31% possession, 2 shots on target (3 off)

Was it pretty? Not at times. Was it effective? Completely. Are you oversimplifying everything to try to make a sensationalized derisory point? Completely.

the stats for the Chelsea game only tell one side of the story. It was a solid defensive display with minimal possession, and certainly 2nd half we were penned back, but we did look to attack, we did get men forward and we did enter the opposition box

Both Arsenal games were similar to last night, and I commented negatively on both. However, last night took it to a new level, IMHO

[EugeneSpeed]

the way I see it is, horses for courses.

Open up and play expansive football we get thumped, 4 or 5, no doubt.

The thing is, with the way the league is now, what teams do you decide to open up and play expansive football against these days? Who do we think we go toe-to-toe with? Doesn't seem as clear cut as "not The Top 4" of yore. And even if there is a fixture where we could do that, we can't because we're so precariously positioned.

That said, job done this week. 3 points off West Brom then a bonus point off Spurs with a goal that'll live long in the memory.