FAC4: Wigan Athletic 2-0 West Ham Utd (27/01/18)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby simon1982 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:42 am

Knighter10WHU wrote:I said before this game we would get beat and we did. Lots of injuries were partially to blame but the tactics are so negative week in week out even Wigan and Shrewsbury are dominating us.

I’m still not over getting beat by Arsenal in the League Cup QF and going out without putting up a fight. That was our best chance of Wembley this year. Oh well maybe next year...


It's got nothing to do with tactics. Byram, masuaku, Cullen and obiang along with Martinez aren't good enough. Byram has hardly played. Masuaku is a show pony and Cullen and obiang are poor. Hopefully people have now seen that Martinez is not going to cut it. We didn't not try, we didn't throw it. The simple reason is that they're just not very good.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Knighter10WHU on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:06 pm

simon1982 wrote:
It's got nothing to do with tactics. Byram, masuaku, Cullen and obiang along with Martinez aren't good enough. Byram has hardly played. Masuaku is a show pony and Cullen and obiang are poor. Hopefully people have now seen that Martinez is not going to cut it. We didn't not try, we didn't throw it. The simple reason is that they're just not very good.


I don’t disagree that the majority of the players listed aren’t good enough at Premier League level, but they’ve played against Shrewsbury and Bolton, a couple of League 1 sides. Most of them have played at that level (or higher) consistently in the past and they should have been more than good enough surrounded by some Premier League players to get the results.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby hammers92 on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:23 pm

As a side point, I though the Wigan fans were great yesterday. Lot of noise for a tiny little section of them.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Rio on Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:42 pm

hammers92 wrote:As a side point, I though the Wigan fans were great yesterday. Lot of noise for a tiny little section of them.


They’re entitled to make a noise beating a Premier league side at home without breaking sweat. However they lose points for the drum and the god awful Will Griggs song which has now infected our ears for around 18 months now
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Drum_Monkey on Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:31 pm

Tenbury wrote:Christ I must be getting old,as I'd expect that from someone who been following West Ham United for about 3years.[ actually that's not true, my 11year old wouldn't dream of saying it].
The "ethos we support" (whatever that means) is about thousands travelling to the northern wastelands to watch the dross churned out at shitholes such as Wigan and Shrewsbury,because we remember the buzz you get from winning things,this may surprise you,but it's quite a lot more satisfying than watching my club for 5minutes at the end of MOTD every week.

In all honesty, if that really is your view, fair enough, I guess you're fairly happy with the current state, this set up is made for you, I'm the fool.


...a tad harsh, reminded me of why I stopped reading/posting. Thanks for the comparison with your 11 year old. Made me chuckle. The ideology isn't about watching the 'dross churned out'.

I never said anything about putting the league before the cup, I was just saying it's important we stay up and I hope we react against Palace because I'd like us to stay competitive and not fall through the divisions.

Have a lovely Sunday :thup:
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Graza on Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:14 pm

Knighter10WHU wrote:I don’t disagree that the majority of the players listed aren’t good enough at Premier League level, but they’ve played against Shrewsbury and Bolton, a couple of League 1 sides. Most of them have played at that level (or higher) consistently in the past and they should have been more than good enough surrounded by some Premier League players to get the results.

Thing is though even if they were individually good enough, and we can debate that all day, that's not enough to make a team and certainly not enough to take on a team that has the momentum they have.

The formation was a shambles, from what I saw we reverted to 4-4-2 but, as with the Shrewsbury games, doing so takes away our width, we had no one capable of running a wing on the pitch on their own, no creativity in the middle, one striker who literally just wants a ball in to feet from 12 yrds or less and a kid who seems like he was given no position or direction.

We have Arnautovic, Antonio, Ayew, Snodgrass and Lanzini who have been effective in advanced wide positions. All of which are injured, except Snodgrass who is on loan. All of which prefer to play inside. That works if you have really good wing backs and accept that all of our strikers don't fit (except Sakho but he's being Sakho again).

So when you shackle your wide defenders to defence by not playing an extra man in the middle at the back in a 3 we are narrow as hell. If you only have to defend a third of the pitch because there are no wide players of course we are predictable. When none of that cluster in the middle have any creativity then what hope did we realistically have.

The squad needs balancing. A formation needs to be decided upon and drilled into the players at every level of the club and players brought in to take that forward. The right person to take on a proper 3-8 year project like that and still be there at the end is a DoF. That way when the kids get a chance they get a real chance to come in and do what they do every week instead of being smashed into whatever hole we've got in our squad this week.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby guineapig on Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:27 pm

Back in the day when clubs put out their first teams in the FA Cup I suspect part of the reason was that this was the only team they had! There weren't the bloated squads that we have now. The sequence at West Ham, for example, was a couple of youth teams, a reserve team and the first team. All these players had regular competition..Nowadays there will be weeks go by where some players never actually play at all. If they are not going to play in the cup competitions then you have to ask why do we actually need them all. Chelsea have probably got a whole team out on loan somewhere. It is a ridiculous situation and only sustainable because of the obscene amounts of money swilling round the game. In order to have their snouts in the trough the club needs to be in the Premier League where the money is. Simple as.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby pharaoh on Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:49 pm

guineapig wrote:Back in the day when clubs put out their first teams in the FA Cup I suspect part of the reason was that this was the only team they had! There weren't the bloated squads that we have now. The sequence at West Ham, for example, was a couple of youth teams, a reserve team and the first team. All these players had regular competition..Nowadays there will be weeks go by where some players never actually play at all. If they are not going to play in the cup competitions then you have to ask why do we actually need them all. Chelsea have probably got a whole team out on loan somewhere. It is a ridiculous situation and only sustainable because of the obscene amounts of money swilling round the game. In order to have their snouts in the trough the club needs to be in the Premier League where the money is. Simple as.

Chelsea have more than 30 players on loan and their "u23's" are a game away from a Wembley final. The management had NO intention of winning that game no matter what team they put out. I read a report from the FL Paper which said Wigan could only beat the team in front of them, which is usually reserved for a big team easily beating a minnow. It also stated the WHU fans had a right to ask for their money back.

I don't see your point on the changes, the team was unbalanced but even then could have given Wigan a game. They didn't. We have lost many games in my life time to lower league clubs but at least up till Allardyce we have always put out first team players with the intention of winning. We blew the Arsenal game, tried to blow Shrewsbury and now got what we deserved against Wigan. Moyes was already making excuses before the game about staying up being a priority and that no fan wants a cup win and to go down. This was disputed by Wigan's own manager Paul Cook who said the people of Wigan still remember the win against Man City despite now being in the 3rd tier. Also he mentioned the fact we were bringing 5k to the game and deserved better. Unfortunately it shows that our own chairman and manger couldn't give a stuff about what the paying fans want, only their own agenda, which for Moyes is his bonus or contract and for the owners their TV money.

Rant over..thank you.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby 'stone hammer on Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:10 pm

Mega Ron wrote:I wasn't surprised. I expect West ham to treat the fans like crap. Today was just the latest example of the club not caring about what the fans want and want it costs the to support the team.

Come travel to the north to support your team. We're not going to put out a strong team and we're not going to let them try very hard. After all they have 11th place to aim for. Anyway, enjoy the pies.



I won't disagree with your sentiment as it was a diabolical display. But exactly what team would you have put out instead? That was about our strongest team at the time.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Samba on Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:09 pm

Graza wrote:I can, but he can't. Full quote
"Moyes said: “If you went back and asked the Wigan people what they’d rather be, they’d have said [they would] rather not win the FA Cup but stay in the Premier League.”
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/davi ... -cf73m69vc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Which shows you exactly how much he wanted to win that tie.


I believed you that he said it, Graza.
I see what you're saying. Did he make up something (which patently isn't true if you listen to the majority of Wigan fans), to underline his pre-game intentions. He's an idiot & incorrect if he did.
On the whole though, I get the impression that generally he's been open & honest about his thinking. Apart from that crazy reasoning, he's not tried to bs us really, since he's been here. The same as Bilic didn't. Both have integrity. His bosses however...
I could be wrong but if Moyes had had a full strength team available, I believe that he would have played it. Perhaps being faced with the only players available & knowing we were gonna be up against it, he said what he said to try & make us feel a bit better, when the inevitable happened.
Perhaps DM all through his career, has always approached cup games this way. A nice distraction but not your bread & butter. He's the manager, he'll do it his way. I'm not saying it's right.
That team selection yesterday, was completely forced on him.
We are currently in the worst injury crisis that I can ever remember.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby ironsjh on Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:12 pm

The reaction of the players after the game were telling. All the younger lads came over to the fans, they got got dogs abuses but a fair few applauded back, meanwhile Joe Hart and Hernandez and I think maybe Cresswell but I may just not have noticed him, went straight down the tunnel, letting the boys get abused. Mario started to come over but left as soon as he heard the boos.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Mega Ron on Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:15 pm

'stone hammer wrote:

I won't disagree with your sentiment as it was a diabolical display. But exactly what team would you have put out instead? That was about our strongest team at the time.


We do have a lot of injuries but I bet we put out a much stronger side against Palace.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby westhamlinnet on Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:20 pm

Ogbonna certainly came over as did younger players . Hart applauded the fans but from centre circle meanwhile the Mexican bottle merchant ran straight off the only energy he showed during the whole afternoon.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Samba on Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:39 pm

Mega Ron wrote:We do have a lot of injuries but I bet we put out a much stronger side against Palace.


Only if some sicknotes have recovered, Ron. We need to, mate.
We're now 2 more first teamers down in Obi & Mas.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby sendô on Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:35 pm

Their second was never a pen. Does ball to hand not exist for referees anymore? What was he supposed to do, chop his arm off?

It's all moot of course, as by then we were rightly down by both a goal and a man, as we were utter tripe.

The form of a couple of very good players (Manu and Marko) coupled with some graft from a few others in recent weeks has masked that our overall squad is thin on quality.

Our injury trouble at the moment is worrying if our second string can't even put in a halfway decent performance against a league one side.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Colours never run on Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:10 pm

The Penalty in real time and even more so in the replay was an absolute joke decision by the Officials. Short of eating his own arm or sticking it up his arse, where the hell was he supposed to put his arm other than into his body which he did?

We're so used to dodgy decisions its almost expected every game now as a norm. Stinks like ****.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby Hailsham Hammer on Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:55 pm

First post on here in many a year.

Not sure if this has been said elsewhere, but i was really suprised by the amount of empty seats around me, and i'm talking first half before people started clearing off. Found it really strange given that we'd sold out.
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby rottiel on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:01 pm

Hailsham Hammer wrote:First post on here in many a year.

Not sure if this has been said elsewhere, but i was really suprised by the amount of empty seats around me, and i'm talking first half before people started clearing off. Found it really strange given that we'd sold out.


I think alot of people with tickets knew we wernt serious about the cup and like the players decided not to bother. Can't think of another reason..
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Re: Wigan Athletic v West Ham Utd: FA Cup 4th rnd match thread

Postby frankiemac on Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:04 pm

Hailsham Hammer wrote:First post on here in many a year.

Not sure if this has been said elsewhere, but i was really suprised by the amount of empty seats around me, and i'm talking first half before people started clearing off. Found it really strange given that we'd sold out.


people buying cheap away tickets to get away points, then not bothering to go?
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