Liverpool 4-1 West Ham Utd (24/02/18)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby The Gibbins on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:06 pm

I think that match just typified how badly we did in both transfer markets this season. All in all i thought we gave it a go, and had Arnautovic put us ahead with that lovely lob it might have been a different game. However, you have to hand it to Liverpool, lovely team to watch and a top quality side that just over powered us.

Our team is quite frankly too old, at the back especially. Zabaleta, Evra and Collins in the same defensive line was horrible to watch. If you want to play on the counter you rely on your wing backs to offer you something going forward but they were up against two young, pacey and extremely fit modem day wing backs. Quite frankly Zabaleta should be replaced next season, along with Collins and Evra, you cannot play teams of this level with 35 year olds in the back line, they were all found out massively.

For those calling for Collins to get a new two year deal, its purely sentimental value. We have Rice coming through now along with Reid and Ogbonna at their peak. We need to go into the market next season and get players of a decent age. We criticise the board for signing cheap or taking shortcuts and giving Collins a new deal would be doing just that. We have a defence on the decline, that's the harsh reality and although Liverpool are a great side, its telling and we should be doing much better business than we have been.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby James P on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:25 pm

^^ Excellent post
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Nesticles on Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:57 pm

I was surprised Rice, Reid and Hernandez all didn't start

Good post Gibbins
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby jacko on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:20 pm

Collins has been a great servant but he needs to go. Oldest backline in the world. Like something from a Father Ted episode.

Collins is my yardstick for how we are progressing. The fact that he can get in the first 11 after one injury shows we just haven't progressed in the last 4-5 years.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby HammerMan2004 on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:24 pm

The Gibbins wrote:Our team is quite frankly too old, at the back especially. Zabaleta, Evra and Collins in the same defensive line was horrible to watch. If you want to play on the counter you rely on your wing backs to offer you something going forward but they were up against two young, pacey and extremely fit modem day wing backs.


All good points on a good post, but we had the tools available if we wanted to use them.

Antonio had his best game for a while at left wing-back against Watford. Byram was sat on the bench. Hell, even Cresswell could've played left wing-back with Reid or Rice coming in at centre back. Zabaleta, Collins and Evra all could've missed out if Moyes had wanted it.

We also could've utilised Antonio up with Arnautovic to help pull us thirty yards further up the pitch on the rare occasion we had the ball.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby warp on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:26 pm

The Gibbins wrote:We need to go into the market next season and get players of a decent age. We criticise the board for signing cheap or taking shortcuts and giving Collins a new deal would be doing just that.

i don't think many fans would be upset if we replaced collins with a young, established defender.
but we're more likely to get a titus bramble, and in that case i'd rather have the ginger pele.
i wouldn't mind him as a fifth choice CB either.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby The Gibbins on Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:28 pm

HammerMan2004 wrote:
All good points on a good post, but we had the tools available if we wanted to use them.

Antonio had his best game for a while at left wing-back against Watford. Byram was sat on the bench. Hell, even Cresswell could've played left wing-back with Reid or Rice coming in at centre back. Zabaleta, Collins and Evra all could've missed out if Moyes had wanted it.

We also could've utilised Antonio up with Arnautovic to help pull us thirty yards further up the pitch on the rare occasion we had the ball.


Completely agree.
I think Cresswell should have gone out to the left, i don't think there was any need to play Evra and like you say we had Reid and Rice sitting on the bench...

If Byram is fit i think hes a better option as wing back, we were just far too sluggish, slow and limited at the back. You could argue the majority of their goals were sloppy and our back line just spent 90 minutes getting the offside trap completely wrong and doing a Barthez..
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Graza on Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:42 pm

Patito wrote:It just seems to get harder and harder that league. You’ve got teams like Wolves and Boro who are spending £15million plus on players which was unheard of before. The debt is a similar level to before but we seem to have a cash flow problem.

Absolutely more difficult, but with parachute payments etc we'd be exacerbating that problem rather than succumbing to it.

I just can't see us rebuilding properly without that kind of shock. We need desperately to rebuild not just add a couple of late twenties established players on mega bucks every year. The only other way to do it is with billionaire owners.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Belchio on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:59 pm

So did Sullivan make it to Liverpool at the weekend after being too ill to attend the Supporters Group Meeting?
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Patito on Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:06 pm

Graza wrote:Absolutely more difficult, but with parachute payments etc we'd be exacerbating that problem rather than succumbing to it.

I just can't see us rebuilding properly without that kind of shock. We need desperately to rebuild not just add a couple of late twenties established players on mega bucks every year. The only other way to do it is with billionaire owners.



I don't reckon we need a total rebuilding job (if we're just talking about the playing staff). 3 quality first teamers would get us 7/8/9th next season I think, if they're the right player. (Also that's unless we sell already established first teamers which might be the case judging by what chalks' has intimated)
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Estuary on Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:21 pm

Bit of a balls up in selection, why leave out Hernandez? And Antonio had a decent game v Watford once he got his head up. I can never understand changing a winning team, especially when it comes to people scoring goals.

4/10 Moyes. Must try harder.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Graza on Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:23 pm

Patito wrote:I don't reckon we need a total rebuilding job (if we're just talking about the playing staff). 3 quality first teamers would get us 7/8/9th next season I think, if they're the right player.

I'm not convinced. We have some decent players but when you break it down we lack the depth to deal with any sort of injuries, let alone out annual pox.

For my money we need a sub keeper/better keeper than Adrian. A right wing back/right back if we decide on a shape. A Center Half in his mid twenties to bridge the older players and the kids. 2 defensive midfielders for the days we want to play that way/one is injured. 1 influential creative midfielder - Mario looks good but will he come/will we pay, but someone in this mould for when Lanzini is up top, needs a rest, has run himself out over 70 mins, is injured. At least 2 wingers, our wingers (Antonio and Arnautovic) prefer to play inside, let them, but that means we need wide options or be forever too narrow. Strikers between Hernandez, Arnautovic, Antonio and a deputising Lanzini we probably have enough but maybe room for one more assuming we aren't counting on Carroll and Hugil has barely touched a blade of grass for us.

So I make that 8 if not 9 players to fill the squad and create a style of play. Say an average of 10m a throw that's 80/90m. But at those prices a number would have to be Championship/Belgian/French/etc. punts (or South American, Sully loves a South American), and who knows if they would adapt? The problem is that we've spent two years going backwards, while many around us have at least been treading water.

Anyway I fear I have strayed well off topic.

With VAR we don't conceed the first, we don't have to chase the game, they get more frustrated and jittery about their leaky defense and maybe we get a better result. This will not define our season but I do hate to see our team just lie down like that.
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Re: Liverpool v West Ham Utd: match thread

Postby Al Fisti on Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:44 pm

some Ayews at Swansea
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