West Ham Utd 1-2 Bournemouth (18/08/18)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby sutts07 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:31 pm

Kev59 wrote:My take on it was that we tried cramming too much into the attack and lost balance, especially in centre midfield. If we'd sacrificed one attacker (Hernandez) and had three midfielders (two + Wilshere) we would have been better at holding the ball and not leaving glaring holes. Playing Sanchez or Rice behind Noble and Wilshere in a 4-1-2-3


Absolutely spot on.

We are simply not strong enough to play two in the middle. Regardless of who the two are.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Puff Daddy on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:09 pm

sutts07 wrote:

Absolutely spot on.

We are simply not strong enough to play two in the middle. Regardless of who the two are.


I agree. What we need is somebody like Ya Ya Toure to knock somebody like Wilson off the ball and just spray passes around to someone like Wilshire, or Yarmie. He don't have to do anything else
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby MadaHammer on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:27 pm

Just seen the equaliser again (probably for the 10th time now) and every time it looks worse. Noble just jogs behind Wilson banking on one of the 4 defenders winning the ball back. I like Noble but he is our captain, he should try and get goalside of him or swipe him down for a booking (like Wilshire did in a pointless area!).
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby wizzo_66 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:28 pm

MadaHammer wrote:Just seen the equaliser again (probably for the 10th time now) and every time it looks worse. Noble just jogs behind Wilson banking on one of the 4 defenders winning the ball back. I like Noble but he is our captain, he should try and get goalside of him or swipe him down for a booking (like Wilshire did in a pointless area!).


He's on a yellow and therefore couldn't do it, which is probably why he didn't.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby BrownFatwa on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:35 pm

For those above suggesting that we take a striker off at 1-0 up to 'protect' the midfield, you really dont get it or rather MP do you. Conceptually at 1-0 he wants attack and 2-0. Pulling off a striker (pardon!) and defending what you've got is classic Moyes or Allardyce tactics.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Harry Hound on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:45 pm

Puff Daddy wrote:"sutts07"

Absolutely spot on.

We are simply not strong enough to play two in the middle. Regardless of who the two are.

I agree. What we need is somebody like Ya Ya Toure to knock somebody like Wilson off the ball and just spray passes around to someone like Wilshire, or Yarmie. He don't have to do anything else

Someone like Kouyate maybe? :o
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Beavis Danzig on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:54 pm

BrownFatwa wrote:For those above suggesting that we take a striker off at 1-0 up to 'protect' the midfield, you really dont get it or rather MP do you. Conceptually at 1-0 he wants attack and 2-0. Pulling off a striker (pardon!) and defending what you've got is classic Moyes or Allardyce tactics.
Welcome to the new world.


pellegrini said in his post match that the problem with the second half was that the players tried to keep the score at 1-0 and stopped believing in the system.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Puff Daddy on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:57 pm

Harry Hound wrote:

Someone like Kouyate maybe? :o


No, Too clumsy and passing too wayward, but you're on the right lines
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby sutts07 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:08 pm

MadaHammer wrote:Noble just jogs behind Wilson banking on one of the 4 defenders winning the ball back.


Surely he should be fully vindicated in 'banking' on at least one of his four defenders to have been able to stop a direct run towards our goal. Especially considering all four were already goal side of the attacker.

Noble no doubt already had half a mind on what to do with the ball once they had won it back. It should have been a formality.

It was one attacker on four defenders. None of the opposition midfield were even close to joining in and had they tried to, Noble was well placed to pick them up.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Al on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:08 pm

Having to revert to 5 in midfield really shows our deficiencies doesn’t it. It seems a long time a go now that the top teams would come to our ground and be intimidated by us playing 4-4-2. Whether it was Carrick and Cole in CM, or Reo-Coker and Mullins/Fletcher our players used to be able to compete and play attacking football. Sadly that style feels a long time ago. For the last several years under Allardyce and Bilic we’ve had to revert to 5 in midfield which often ends up with us defending for our lives. I really hope that we can find 4 midfielders that can compete in the premiership which means pitting a shift in, winning the ball and forward passing. Too many times our midfielders let the opposition ghost past us. If only there was another Paul Ince in our academy. However our academy seems to be producing nothing these days.

For me our best midfield at the mo is probably:
Masuaku—-Wilshere—-Sanchez—-Yarmolenko
and Cresswell playing left back.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby sutts07 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:10 pm

Beavis Danzig wrote:pellegrini said in his post match that the problem with the second half was that the players tried to keep the score at 1-0 and stopped believing in the system.


I think they just upped their game and we didn't go with them.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby sutts07 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:18 pm

Al wrote:Having to revert to 5 in midfield really shows our deficiencies doesn’t it. It seems a long time a go now that the top teams would come to our ground and be intimidated by us playing 4-4-2.


Seems a long time ago, because it was a long time ago. The game has changed and hardly anyone plays 442 these days as the battle for control of the middle is far too important.

Have a look at every premier league line up from the weekend just gone. I'd say it is just Southampton, Huddersfield and us that are trying to play with a traditional looking 442.

Every other team will have a variation of 433, 451 or 352.

We are simply too weak to play two in the middle. Even Chelsea play three in the middle and they have Kante in their side.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Burnley Hammer on Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:41 pm

sutts07 wrote:We are simply too weak to play two in the middle. Even Chelsea play three in the middle and they have Kante in their side.


:thup:
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Johnny_C WHU on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:10 pm

I said before that we cannot be judged on the back of playing Liverpool, they will destroy most teams however, Bournemouth is a fair reflection - no excuses.

Firstly I was surprised with the line up especially with those being left out of the squad! wonder what that does for morale.

I thought until the Bournemouth goal we actually looked quite solid defensively. Zab had a good game for me, he was bombing up and down and was involved in some good play. Thought the two centre backs were again decent until that goal.... no idea how it happened. I really don't understand the negativity towards Fabianski and Arthur either.

Midfield was again a weak point at times and I am truly sorry to say that I do think the issue may lay with Noble, Jack was again class. The way Noble 'run' back for their first goal was almost like Kouyate! I thought that when Sanchez came on he hovered in front of the back line and we had a solid shape. Nobes passing was well off and apart from the safe 5 yard sideways play there wasn't much else. Was lucky with the pen appeal as well, as harsh as it would have been and the fella clearly dived there was some justification to it.
I would be reluctant to drop him just yet though, I would drop Snodgrass and play Sanchez that would allow some misgivings from the midfielders in front of him.

Anderson, funny I feel a bit sorry for him because he hasn't got anyone to really play off at the moment. He tends to get the ball at his feet and cut back inside, rather than getting the chalk on his boots and crossing in. Is this because of how our forwards were playing, looking for the ball to feet rather than charging the box? Lets be patient with him, remember Arnie at the start of last season!

Arnie has really developed for me, seems like a proper arrogant striker now. Chica, no more than a penalty box player and again we are not playing to his strengths.

Thought all the subs looked good when they come on.

Overall, pissed off with the result. don't think it was a fair reflection in quite a stale game really. 10 minutes of suicidal defending killed the game off.

Bournemouth's diving really got my goat though!
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Irrons on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:12 pm

Al wrote:Having to revert to 5 in midfield really shows our deficiencies doesn’t it. It seems a long time a go now that the top teams would come to our ground and be intimidated by us playing 4-4-2. Whether it was Carrick and Cole in CM, or Reo-Coker and Mullins/Fletcher our players used to be able to compete and play attacking football. Sadly that style feels a long time ago. For the last several years under Allardyce and Bilic we’ve had to revert to 5 in midfield which often ends up with us defending for our lives.


And which player has been the mainstay of our midfield for all those previous seasons? Mark Noble.

I like Mark but he has always been one of the slowest midfielders in the Premiership. If you don't support him with pace and athleticism you will always struggle against teams who have it in abundance. Having watched MOTD highlights last night, it was clear that teams like Wolves and Leicester have bags of pace and athleticism all over the pitch and particularly in midfield so unless we can fix this problem we're really going to struggle against these sides. Wilshere, Sanchez and Obiang are our strongest and most athletic midfield 3 so we need to hope that none of these players get injured or we'll be in trouble
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Sloop John B on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:39 pm

BrownFatwa wrote:For those above suggesting that we take a striker off at 1-0 up to 'protect' the midfield, you really dont get it or rather MP do you. Conceptually at 1-0 he wants attack and 2-0. Pulling off a striker (pardon!) and defending what you've got is classic Moyes or Allardyce tactics.
Welcome to the new world.


I do wonder if the past few years have warped a fair few peoples minds a bit too much. Every time I see someone argue about a defensive setup or make the case..again and again and again for a defensive midfielder when we finally have a manager who appears prepared to really - REALLY - have a go at teams I wonder if our fans have been at the Allardici cool aid.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Colours never run on Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:52 pm

MadaHammer wrote:Just seen the equaliser again (probably for the 10th time now) and every time it looks worse. Noble just jogs behind Wilson banking on one of the 4 defenders winning the ball back. I like Noble but he is our captain, he should try and get goalside of him or swipe him down for a booking (like Wilshire did in a pointless area!).



I still can't get over that slack play by Snodgrass that starts the whole mess off catching us on the back foot. Doesn't excuse everyone else's failure to deal with it including the Keeper who's getting off lightly but Snodgrass ****ed up badly when in possession gifting it back to them the way he did.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Crouchend_Hammer on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:00 pm

Colours that is extremely harsh on Snodgrass IMHO

Yes, he could have played an easier option, but he was trying to play a through ball to our strikers. It didn't come off, but nothing wrong in being a bit adventurous. I for one don't want to discourage our attacking players to take risks.

We had more than enough players to deal with the situation after their CB intercepted it
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Colours never run on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:02 pm

sutts07 wrote:We are simply too weak to play two in the middle. Even Chelsea play three in the middle and they have Kante in their side.


Aye, which is why I've long been an advocate in recent times to play with 3 in the middle to snuff out the space which we've managed well on many occasions in the past when we do it. It's not just a case of masking player deficiencies but it's actually a numbers game more than anything plugging the gaps that appear so often and easily against some **** hot quick thinking and fast paced players in this League.

The hardest battle of all in the Prem is to win the centre ground. Achieve that, then you're laughing. Unless your middle 2 are absolutely bang on it like Kante and Drinkwater were for Leciester which is extremely rare, you're better off playing with a three and why a few teams these days are adopting 3 at the back once they realised it helps the team gain the centre ground more.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Colours never run on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:05 pm

Crouchend_Hammer wrote:Colours that is extremely harsh on Snodgrass IMHO



Not harsh enough in my opinion, he's got off lightly when pointing the finger at those that played a part in the shambolic goal. I weren't the only one who clocked it either as a few around me said what the **** was he doing and you could see it all over his face when the goal eventually went in head back looking skywards trudging back to halfway line. It was sloppy play and he knew it. It was a ball he was never going to make from the view we had.
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