West Ham Utd 1-2 Bournemouth (18/08/18)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby bobd_uk on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:08 pm

Colours never run wrote:I still can't get over that slack play by Snodgrass that starts the whole mess off catching us on the back foot. Doesn't excuse everyone else's failure to deal with it including the Keeper who's getting off lightly but Snodgrass ****ed up badly when in possession gifting it back to them the way he did.


Are we going to tell our players not to attempt anything creative in case we release their attacker into a 1-on-5 situation then? The issue here is appalling defending. Even if Snodgrass had been aware his ball could end up with Wilson, he'd likely still be thinking "that's ok - he's surrounded by our players" and he'd have been correct. You can't play balls assuming that all of your players will be terrible if you lose it.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby warp on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:10 pm

Sloop John B wrote:or make the case..again and again and again for a defensive midfielder when we finally have a manager who appears prepared to really - REALLY - have a go at teams I wonder if our fans have been at the Allardici cool aid.

a proper defensive midfielder, so the rest of the midfield can actually attack?
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Colours never run on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:14 pm

Bob

We should be telling our players not to be making passes they were never going to make. It was never on in a vital part of the pitch that sent them on their way with us on the back foot.

I won't excuse the other players part they also played be it Noble, Balbuena, Ogbonna, Fabianski but Snodgrass should be taking his fair share of the blame too for starting it all off when it was so poorly executed.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Irrons on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:22 pm

The pass from Snodgrass was poor but then plenty of our attacking players and midfielders played numerous poor passes through-out the game including Noble, Anderson and various others. Singling out Snodgrass for a speculative pass forward like that and making out he was somehow at fault for the goal is nonsense.

After that pass was cut out we still had 4 players covering against one. Four on one for christ sake! And in typical West Ham fashion we still manage to concede. Our defence is solely to blame for that goal and no-one else.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby bobd_uk on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:30 pm

Colours never run wrote:Bob

We should be telling our players not to be making passes they were never going to make. It was never on in a vital part of the pitch that sent them on their way with us on the back foot.

I won't excuse the other players part they also played be it Noble, Balbuena, Ogbonna, Fabianski but Snodgrass should be taking his fair share of the blame too for starting it all off when it was so poorly executed.


So essentially a "know your limits" approach to management. Maybe we can group them into "great", "good" and "average" groups so each player knows his level?
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:34 pm

Players should play to their strengths and not their weaknesses..

How many bloody times is Masuaku going to try to dribble out of the 18 yard box and either get caught in possession and/or lose it cheaply and/or attempt tackles when he has no chance of winning the ball ?

First 4 times on Saturday he committed 3 unnecessary fouls and the other one ended up a throw in for them.

Play a simple ball man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:x
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Jon on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:49 pm

I suppose MP got the job because of games like Saturday. The Board have said 'we want to attack teams like Bournemouth and NOT play 1 up top and pack the middle'.

Hernandez may well have left if Moyes stayed and MP feels obliged to fit him in somewhere.

The facts are that we're a bog standard top level team. Always have been. If MP thinks he can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear he's either brave or bit dull. He's most probably both.

Sorry but we (still) aint got the players.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Irrons on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:52 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:Players should play to their strengths and not their weaknesses..

How many bloody times is Masuaku going to try to dribble out of the 18 yard box and either get caught in possession and/or lose it cheaply and/or attempt tackles when he has no chance of winning the ball ?

First 4 times on Saturday he committed 3 unnecessary fouls and the other one ended up a throw in for them.

Play a simple ball man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:x


Agreed he's a very frustrating player and a bit of a liability of LB but he does have alot of pace and trickery - I really think he'd be better suited further forward and would still be able to do the tracking back defensively. I feel we're missing a trick by not playing him in his preferred position
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:55 pm

Suggested that we play Cresswell behind him, Arthur LW and Anderson in AMC....

probably means dropping Snodders who really hasn't done much wrong, but if we are expected to move "to the next level" Yarmolenko has to start and probably Perez somewhere in there...........

Spend 100M and stick a player in who we deemed surplus to requirements 1 season ago..

As Fat Boy Slim says: "You've come a long way baby....."
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby mike1961 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:03 pm

I thought both Snodgrass and Anderson were ineffective on Saturday. Their final ball was nearly always forwards and was easily batted away by the Bournemouth defence. Last season although Antonio and Masuaku would often give the ball away on the wing but about 1 time in 10 they would beat opposing players and deliver a killer cross (worthy of a goal). However, I guess we're stuck with the Snodgrass/ Anderson combimation for a few weeks (they have to be given their chance).
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby sutts07 on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:09 pm

Colours never run wrote:Unless your middle 2 are absolutely bang on it like Kante and Drinkwater were for Leciester which is extremely rare,


Even the way they played without the ball was a lot more like 451 as Okazaki would drop deep leaving Vardy up top on his own.

Okazaki, Mahrez and Albrighton would all then ping forward as soon as they won the ball and they would attack almost in a 424 formation. They were very well drilled and it was very effective.

The two huge issues we have right now are;
1 - we do not have an out and out DCM like Kante (who does)
2 - we do not work hard as a team to get back in and form one solid defensive unit when we do not have the ball.

Hernandez, Arnautovic and Anderson didn't track back at all between them. That makes it very easy for the opposition to overrun us in the middle.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Gsbgsb on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:11 pm

I doubt we are stuck with anything. If the turnover from Liverpool to Saturday is anything to go by MP is ruthless. I can see several changes again for this weekend. If I were Hernandez, Snodgrass, Arthur or Noble I would not be confident of a game. Sanchez, Obiang, Yarmolenko and Cresswell all have to be in with a shout especially if he is going to play the extra midfielder away as against Liverpool.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Gsbgsb on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:17 pm

sutts07 wrote:2 - we do not work hard as a team to get back in and form one solid defensive unit when we do not have the ball.

Hernandez, Arnautovic and Anderson didn't track back at all between them. That makes it very easy for the opposition to overrun us in the middle.


This is bang on - look at the effort all 10 outfield players put in for Brighton yesterday, not just every now and then if they lost the ball etc but for the whole 90 minutes.

This isn’t Moyes/Allardyce anti-football ethic it is an essential part of the modern game. If you do not try hard enough off the ball you do not get to play for Pep.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Ozza on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:19 pm

issue is we haven't done that over 3 managers now, first it was Bilic, losing the dressing room, unfit players etc, then it was Moyes now Pelli
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Morocco Mole on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:37 pm

bubbles1966 wrote:Whoscored: (6.8 is essentially an average PL performance)

Image

Masuaku had the highest number of touches, the best pass accuracy, the most tackles and interceptions.

Anderson had the most successful dribbles (along with Wilshere) and made 7 tackles, interceptions, clearances which is very high for an attacking player.


The only one there that doesn’t really chime with my perception of the game is Anderson who I can’t recall ‘successfully dribbling’ past anyone on any occasion. He also seemed lazy with his tracking back. The others are about right although I feel for Nobes who had zero help protecting the back four.

Felt that Masuaku was one of our better if not best player.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby peter49uk on Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:59 pm

Re discussion on Masuaku, only going my MotD he looked quite pished when their first goal went in, but why did he not use his pace and get back to try and defend nearer the goal and not just jog back a ways relying on others or thinking others will deal with the fellow going through on goal.
Until MP gets this into their heads that they have to do their utmost on all occasions they will not compete even with the teams they should do better against let alone the good teams. For that's all I see the good teams/players do, work hard and and put a shift in. Oh and don't give up.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby ashbanki on Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:02 pm

Anderson does not look like a winger to me - maybe he can get away with it in Italy, but not here - he's a no 10 and,possibly, a second striker.It's Wilshere or Noble - Our season looks like being reliant on a last minute "desperation signing" 31 year old Sanchez. Anyone who actually believed that Rice was going to be the "missing link" to our DM is a bloody fool,imo and it is especially bitter as he was starting to look the business at CB!!
Did Pellegrini, actually, watch any of our matches in the last two seasons or just take our previous de facto DOF at his word? The pre season friendlies saw virtually every team we played walked through our CM with ease, ffs.
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Puff Daddy on Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:13 pm

ashbanki wrote:Anderson does not look like a winger to me - maybe he can get away with it in Italy, but not here - he's a no 10 and,possibly, a second striker.It's Wilshere or Noble - Our season looks like being reliant on a last minute "desperation signing" 31 year old Sanchez. Anyone who actually believed that Rice was going to be the "missing link" to our DM is a bloody fool,imo and it is especially bitter as he was starting to look the business at CB!!
Did Pellegrini, actually, watch any of our matches in the last two seasons or just take our previous de facto DOF at his word? The pre season friendlies saw virtually every team we played walked through our CM with ease, ffs.



Ever since I was a boy, when I first started watching us, a whole succession of managers have not rectified this. Every team has left it t o the defence to do the defending and the attackers the attacking. It is like they say to each other, you do your job, whilst we do ours. God bless them, Messrs Greenwood and Lyall were no different, this was there way too. In fact the only one who did make an attempt at us defending as a team and attacking as a team was BFS. It is like it is inherent in our DNA
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby peter49uk on Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:21 pm

Puff don't know how far back you are going but I started going to WHU just after Greenwood took over from Fenton and in them days the whole set up was different, left halves right halves inside forwards etc. And if it was expected Redknapp and the likes to track back you would still be waiting. :lol:
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Re: West Ham Utd v Bournemouth: match thread (18/8)

Postby Gsbgsb on Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:57 pm

Certainly Allardyce and to an extent Curbishly tried to get us playing as a team when it came to defending but their attacking philosophy was not in the spirit of the club.

As more and more sides adopt the high fitness, high pressure approach we cannot afford to think we are to good to do that however what we can do is combine that defence with a more attractive attacking method.
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