Everton 1-3 West Ham Utd (16/09/18)

An archive of match day threads originally posted in the General Discussion forum.

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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Kev59 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:49 pm

Up the Junction wrote:
It's often been asked when the PL bubble will burst - I wonder if this might be the beginning of the end. Who, outside of the fans of the three or four clubs involved, wants to watch a league that's non-competitive and unwinnable for most participants?
.


Depends on your viewpoint. As far as I'm concerned supporting West Ham isn't about winning titles; the occasional cup run is good enough. After 47 years supporting them through thin and thinner I'm just happy when we put out some decent performances and give as good as we get in the rest. We sold part of our soul when we left The Boleyn; becoming another title contender in the top 4 would see the rest of it sold as well. If the PL bubble does burst, it wouldn't create a level playing field. Pre-PL we were still chasing Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool and couldn't compete with them on "name" alone.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby The Old Man of Storr on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:04 pm

Up the Junction wrote:I think the problem is far bigger than the odd dodgy refereeing decision.

It's often been asked when the PL bubble will burst - I wonder if this might be the beginning of the end. Who, outside of the fans of the three or four clubs involved, wants to watch a league that's non-competitive and unwinnable for most participants?

I reckon that's where our Everton fan is coming from, and not simply throwing his toys of of the pram.


It has got to the stage that every competition is now won by Chelsea , Manchester United , Manchester City or Liverpool - yes , there are the [ very ] rare exceptions such as Leicester City , Swansea City , Portsmouth and Wigan but you have to go back to the 1980s before you see consecutive victories by Clubs who aren't part of the Magic 4 Clubs when Coventry then Wimbledon won the FA Cup , the 1990s to when Aston Villa then Leicester won the League Cup , otherwise it's business as usual for the Usual Suspects , they've got every competition pretty much sewn up .

What the solution to all this is , I wouldn't have a clue .

If you give up going to games you hurt your own club , the only other choice we have is giving up your Sky subscription .
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Up the Junction on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:06 pm

Kev59 wrote:Depends on your viewpoint. As far as I'm concerned supporting West Ham isn't about winning titles; the occasional cup run is good enough.

Nobody mentioned "winning titles" Kev, until your post.

As for cup runs, in recent season our managers have thrown more than they've tried to win.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby HammerAl on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:06 pm

Up the Junction wrote:The opposition view: Everton
http://kumb.com/story.php?id=132862


'We shouldn't lose to anyone at home'

Brilliant :lol:
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:12 pm

@ OMoS

if no one goes, it matters not one whit now mate....

similar to the NFL clubs make money before a single season ticket is sold.

clubs don't count on attendances other than it looks awful on the telly.

if our club took all of the money spent on grub and booze it might add a bit to the coffers, we get nowt comparatively speaking...

the NFL here now I think are suffering a bit from people not going or losing interest and not tuning in.

the 6:00 p.m. shows that follow the Sunday football though, I think, still get great viewing figures. ergo right now it is worth the investment. however.....will it continue ????

the keeling down during the national anthem hasn't helped them at all............

people have said the t.v. bubble will burst for years now, it hasn't and revenue has increased. Amazon show a few games. they will continue to do so and try to get onto the bandwagon.

not sure where all this is going honestly. people still go to La Liga games and Bundesliga games and presumably League 1 in France. None of those are competitive.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Ironing Board on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:12 pm

The Old Man of Storr wrote:
It has got to the stage that every competition is now won by Chelsea , Manchester United , Manchester City or Liverpool - yes , there are the [ very ] rare exceptions such as Leicester City , Swansea City , Portsmouth and Wigan but you have to go back to the 1980s before you see consecutive victories by Clubs who aren't part of the Magic 4 Clubs when Coventry then Wimbledon won the FA Cup , the 1990s to when Aston Villa then Leicester won the League Cup , otherwise it's business as usual for the Usual Suspects , they've got every competition pretty much sewn up .

What the solution to all this is , I wouldn't have a clue .

If you give up going to games you hurt your own club , the only other choice we have is giving up your Sky subscription .

Don’t forget how the Champions League has also ruined the European Cup. All the romance has gone from that tournament now it is dominated by the same few teams every year. The old knockout format gave it more of a randomness that made it appealing.

They have killed the golden goose, as when you look at football overall it all seems so preordained. Every league is becoming a glorified Scottish Premier League and, frankly, it gets boring to see the same teams winning everything year after year.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Ironing Board on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:14 pm

Cuenca 'ammer wrote:not sure where all this is going honestly. people still go to La Liga games and Bundesliga games and presumably League 1 in France. None of those are competitive.

Funnily enough, the NFL and other rAmerican leagues go to great lengths to prevent too much domination. They are smart enough to know it is bad for business.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby carnage on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:17 pm

Most Prem clubs would make a profit in an empty ground, us included.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby HammerAl on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:19 pm

For the first time in a long, long time, I actually enjoyed watching us play yesterday. We didn't shy away and everyone looked up for it. We can now go into the next couple of games with a little extra freedom knowing we have that result behind us. Genuinely chuffed and put me in a good mood for the week.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby e17 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Up the Junction wrote:I think the problem is far bigger than the odd dodgy refereeing decision.

It's often been asked when the PL bubble will burst - I wonder if this might be the beginning of the end. Who, outside of the fans of the three or four clubs involved, wants to watch a league that's non-competitive and unwinnable for most participants?

I reckon that's where our Everton fan is coming from, and not simply throwing his toys of of the pram.

Think it's probably stronger for clubs like ours, Everton, Southampton or Newcastle than it is for clubs coming up or someone like Bournemouth.

But I am definitely in the group who have literally no interest in any of Premiership result or match other than ours, haven't watched MotD except when we've won in about 4 years, and found the World Cup like a breath of fresh air because it didn't feel like a financial procession.

No doubt the overseas audience and increasing monopolisation of the top flight by the likes of Citeh means the "bubble" wont burst anytime soon. But it will eventually.

12 of the 20 teams in the division basically have nothing to play for.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby bristolhammerfc on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:22 pm

I think the other issue is the 'Leicester effect'.

A season when all the planets in terms of footballing cock ups by the 'big clubs' lined up.

It had a huge affect on aspirations of mid table teams and destroyed Leicester.

It meant the big six shored up the exposed weaknesses and ensured it will never happen again.

Even Spain is more competitive in terms of games now.

Everton fans are guilty of looking enviously over the fence at their neighbours. We, thanks to Sullivan, are the nightmare neighbours to our local rivals. We aren't looking over the fence as much as pissing on it and setting it alight with petrol.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby the pink palermo on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:25 pm

Up the Junction wrote:It's often been asked when the PL bubble will burst - I wonder if this might be the beginning of the end. Who, outside of the fans of the three or four clubs involved, wants to watch a league that's non-competitive and unwinnable for most participants?



I suspect supporters of clubs such as Stockport County or Rochdale may have a wry smile at such thoughts.

When the PL clubs decided to cast adrift the so called lower league clubs, reducing their income, then buying fewer and fewer players from them, not only did they face the prospect of never winning anything ever , they ran the risk of oblivion.

The most startling comment from the OV for me was the one pointing out Everton had won more league titles by 1987 than Manchester United or Arsenal.

He may have forgotten Everton were one of the laughably named "big 5" who were instrumental in pushing for a bigger slice of the pie in the eighties/ early nineties.

Reap, sow and all that.

However in the past 52 years the English top flight has been won by just 12 different clubs, so there was a high degree of the same clubs generally winning the league prior to football being invented in 1992.

In addition to the 6 clubs who have won the PL, you can add Leeds United, Everton, Derby County, Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa, each of whom were English champions at some time during the previous 26 years.

As for the cups, with only 3 teams winning the FA cup who haven't won the league in the PL era,that to me says more about the teams who are clearly prioritising PL survival above winning a trophy. However, it was generally true in the previous 26 years the stronger sides in the league also did well in the cups , with only 4 sides winning the FA cup who hadn't won the league in that period. So has football really changed ? Maybe, but mainly down to attitude and clubs not understanding what really matters.

The league cup in both the PL era and the previous 26 years has always been the most open competition, that one has seen the biggest concentration into the hands of the PL winners , with just 5 non PL winners winning it in the PL era.

For me the league hasn't really changed all that much, the cups though are about most clubs surrendering and not even trying, prioritising survival in the PL above all else. There are some exceptions , though, and take a bow Wigan Athletic. They've got some silverware that can never be taken from them. It arguably cost them a top flight place, but so what .

No club will ever win anything unless they try. Whenever I see a poster on here suggest a weakened side for a cup tie a little of me just dies, if supporters don't want to win something the game really is lost.

I'll be at the game against Macclesfield Town and I'm hoping to see our first XI against theirs. Few if any of our players will ever hang a winners medal around their necks for the PL, but they could win one for a good cup campaign .If the Manager respects his players, he'll pick his strongest side.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Cuenca 'ammer on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:25 pm

IB

purely from the monetary point I included the NFL..any league that doesn't have promotion and relegation can't be considered sports...

oh and ....

XLII Feb. 3, 2008 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New York Giants 17, New England 14
XLIII Feb. 1, 2009 Raymond James Stadium (Tampa, Fla.) Pittsburgh Steelers 27, Arizona Cardinals 23
XLIV Feb. 7, 2010 Sun Life Stadium (Miami) New Orleans Saints 31, Indianapolis Colts 17
XLV Feb. 6, 2011 Cowboys Stadium (Arlington, Texas) Green Bay Packers 31, Pittsburgh Steelers 25
XLV Feb. 5, 2012 Lucas Oil Stadium (Indianapolis) New York Giants 21, New England Patriots 17
XLVII Feb. 3, 2013 Mercedes-Benz Superdome (New Orleans) Baltimore Ravens 34, San Francisco 49ers 31
XLVIII Feb. 2, 2014 MetLife Stadium (East Rutherford, N.J.) Seattle Seahawks 43, Denver Broncos 8
XLIX Feb. 1, 2015 University of Phoenix Stadium (Glendale, Ariz.) New England Patriots 28, Seattle Seahawks 24
50 Feb. 7, 2016 Levi's Stadium (Santa Clara, Calif.) Denver Broncos 24, Carolina Panthers 10
LI Feb. 5, 2017 NRG Stadium (Houston) New England Patriots 34, Atlanta Falcons 28
LII Feb. 4, 2018 U.S. Bank Stadium (Minneapolis) Philadelphia Eagles 41, New England Patriots 33

good job there's parity in the NFL...

Steelers have won it 5 times since I got here.......
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby sutts07 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:36 pm

bristolhammerfc wrote:
It had a huge affect on aspirations of mid table teams and destroyed Leicester.


Massively off topic, but I have to ask... how did that destroy Leicester?

1st in the Prem followed by QF of UEFA Champions league then 9th in the table with two domestic QF's...

I'd say they are in a pretty good place considering their history. If anything it gives hope to us all that it can still happen. I'd say it is the reason that we go to the Etihad or Anfield and think, 'Iquite fancy us to get something today', when in all honesty we are looking at a nailed on 3 goal defeat.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby e17 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:55 pm

The ironic thing about the debate on Leicester is that if the owners had spent actual dosh that January during the final Boleyn season when Payet was ruling the roost, we'd have finished in the top 4.

No question at all on that.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby sendô on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:04 pm

An Everton OV is always a delicious read after a win.

They really think their club should be on a par with the likes of Man Utd.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Adrianisournumber1 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:12 pm

I think people look at the morality of it all also i think when Neymar got brought for what was almost £200Mill just brings about what is completely wrong about football.

We Spent £100mill this window which seems obscene in its self.

For me ****ing out £150 a weekend to watch a bunch of overpaid players who really dont care about the badge on the shirt is well just not on the table.

I pay £10 to watch my local club, i get to drink a pint in the stands and and standup watching the game without some idiot telling me to sit down. I also get to watch it looking out onto the sussex downs, what is not to like about that, going to watch the u18s play tonight.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Clacton-ammer on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:13 pm

I think the oppo view in main is fairly fair.

If we were playing bottom of the table, no points etc we would not expect to lose 3-1, yes there were fine margins, but that's football, and I guarantee this website would have been up in arms about it :D

Interesting points from the guv, I sort of agree, in regards to the "normal" supporter I totally agree, hearing it more and more (I include myself in that, did not renew, been to other sporting events instead of football and I have to say not missing it yet and actually taking in new experiences has been top notch). I disagree in regards to the bubble burst and the money side, still billions being made and ploughed in with investment/advertising etc, cannot see that ending anytime soon (sadly).

Modern day football, not really about the ST supporter anymore is it.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Marky on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:24 pm

bristolhammerfc wrote:I think the other issue is the 'Leicester effect'.

A season when all the planets in terms of footballing cock ups by the 'big clubs' lined up.

It had a huge affect on aspirations of mid table teams and destroyed Leicester.

It meant the big six shored up the exposed weaknesses and ensured it will never happen again.

Even Spain is more competitive in terms of games now.

Everton fans are guilty of looking enviously over the fence at their neighbours. We, thanks to Sullivan, are the nightmare neighbours to our local rivals. We aren't looking over the fence as much as pissing on it and setting it alight with petrol.



Bit harsh to say it ‘destroyed’ Leicester. I think they have just reverted to their normal which is a mid table Premiership team. Actually, thats pretty good for them in the last 20 years.
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Re: ⚽ Everton vs West Ham Utd: match thread (16/9)

Postby Adrianisournumber1 on Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:29 pm

Worth noting Leicester have spent £300mill on transfers since 2015
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