West Ham Utd 1 Man Utd 2 (27/11/05)

Relive every moment of every first team game since the beginning of the 2005/06 season. Our archive of matchday threads originally posted in the General Discussion Forum.

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appyammer al
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Post by appyammer al »

Repka - The fact that he gave the ball away very VERY cheaply for the first goal
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Ariksan
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Post by Ariksan »

DI GREEKIO wrote:all i will bother to say is that this cartoon rooney the shrek did an offensive foul in the second goal. prouid as always to be a hammer and i piss on manure
QFE!!!!!!

Maybe my judgement is ruined by watching too much continental football but I thought so too. Caroll was attacked within the goalie's area. There second goal should have been disallowed.
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Post by hawkins_hammer »

I think Dailly is terrible now, how long before Collins makes the bench....Rooney is the best player I have ever seen at UP. Think Aliadiere should have been given ago instead of Newton for about ten minutes. Im not sure if Pards likes him because Bellion would have been on the bench in front of him if he wasn't 'league-tied'.
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Post by morten »

Just watched the game now, had to tape it because of an other game.

1-0: Great counter attack. Did everything right, pushed on with a lot of players to make it actually a three on two situation.

1-1: Again, Repka will for ever cost the club goals and points. Could've easily cleared it once or twice, but instead made a horrible mistake. Then the three defenders where correctly on line, but for some reason Sheringham (of all people in defence...) pushed up, Rooney spotted it, and came in the hole behind Sheringham to score the goal. Two crucial errors.

1-2: Carrolls fault. He came out, totally missed it, O'Shea won the ball the Carroll definitely should've punched out of danger. He can use his arms, but still got caught.

In sum: A few very good counter attacks, but three crucial and simple mistakes cost us like they always do when you play against top class teams.

And I have to say I question the decision not to make it five players and midfield when we were dragged to pieces there for most of the game. No negative words about Noble, but he couldn't carry it Mullins was more of a "passenger". Dailly had a bit more grit in that role when he played. In my opinion we should've had Mullins, or Dailly, in midfield with Noble and Benayoun next to him, Etherington and Harewood on the flanks, and Zamora up front.
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Post by Marky »

Rooney was breathtaking at times. Best player we have faced this season and for a lot of our lot ever.
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If only....
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Post by If only.... »

I was at the game and have read the posts. Here is my pennys worth.

Manure were bloody good as a unit. Excellent first time-passing, great movement. When we had the ball they worked hard to close us down and keep players marked. We came up against them at the wrong time. They are in form. Having said all that take away Rooney and it would have been very different. He was a class apart. So we lost to a good side by the odd goal.

On our side I thought we battled hard and an equaliser was by no means out of the question but only due to Carroll's saves that kept us in the match. He looked at fault to me on the second goal but need to see it on TV.

Our main problem was giving away possession too cheaply all over the park but, scarily, often in or on the edge of our own box.

Great to see Harewood put the goal away but he did not achieve much else although his workrate was OK. I would have taken him off after their second goal.

Contrary to some comments above I thought Noble and Yossi had OK games. Covered the pitch, got tackles in and some lovely touches. Yossi is our only player with a class first touch - most of the others were pretty erratic. Yossi always looked a threat but it just never opened up - good defending.

Etherington had a best game for a while and the cross for the goal was perfection.

Defence did well but struggled to rob players dribbling through the box and then, when they won the ball, they messed about and lost it again.

On the whole we were not shown up but there was a quality gap, emphasised by Rooney. But he will demonstrate a gap against most teams in the world!

The failure to sign a striker in the summer is looking painful at the moment. I'd like to see us have someone signed up and with us for first week of Jan, not waiting for deadline at the month end.

Bring on the Brummies. With them, Villa, Everton & Fulham all winning it has not been a good weekend.
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Post by Amsterhammer »

morten wrote: And I have to say I question the decision not to make it five players and midfield when we were dragged to pieces there for most of the game. No negative words about Noble, but he couldn't carry it Mullins was more of a "passenger". Dailly had a bit more grit in that role when he played. In my opinion we should've had Mullins, or Dailly, in midfield with Noble and Benayoun next to him, Etherington and Harewood on the flanks, and Zamora up front.
At HT I commented to those watching with me that (imho) we needed to reinforce midfield and replace tired Ted. Not that that would have necessarily made any difference - there was certainly no disgrace attached to this defeat, we unfortunately met a Manure side on form, and a top player on top form.
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Post by Ironball »

I thought our problem today was being overawed into not keeping the ball.

We are usually pretty bad at this as we end up hoofing the long ball up to Harewood, but today every time we intercepted possession, the interception was twinned with a nervous stab twenty yards to a United player or off for an unnecessary corner. I was watching Man United's interceptions and their players were mentally two seconds ahead of the play, so that every time they intercepted they had a sense of who was where and made sure the power and direction of the challenge ensured the ball ran to a Man U player.

If the manager reads KUMB - you need to teach the players that we have to crank it up from the crisis mentality of just 'putting in a challenge-clearance'. Not good enough to protect a lead if a new attack starts immediately.

COMPOSURE!

Also, Yossi's comment about being allowed a 'free role' was a complete joke in the first half. He effectively played as a third centre midfield player in a severely packed middle, and we failed to exploit a lot of space on the flank. At one point someone played what looked like a protest pass consciously into an acre of absent space.

I was quite encouraged with how the manager changed things around in the second half, though, putting Marlon on the right and Yossi in the hole.

On thing is for sure: Yossi needs to be played in the middle or in the hole, or the manager needs to sort out the issue of Yossi playing on the right hand side, as a flank player. Either get him more ball by moving him inside, or nail his foot to the touchline and sort out distribution from the back.

I really like Yossi as a player, but either his positional play is bad, or his share of possession is not functioning properly at the moment, as he is always dropping too deep to get some ball or coming inside into dead-ends rather than getting the ball on the right and linking up with the strikers from there.

Since this has turned into quite a tactical post, I would also like to say, in case the manager reads these threads:

We usually look like we are making it up as we are going along whereas the best teams always have units of players, or triangles, moving across the pitch together providing options and patters they repeat, ad nauseam, to good effect. You don't have to have incredibly skilful players if your build-up strategies are well-defined and well executed.

Compare that with today, and as usual. When one of our players breaks he is usually totally isolated.

Please sort! (get some videos of Man U for Xmas or something and copy their patterns!!!)

(This is not to say that we didn't, intermittently, play a bit of football today - but I really think that since they didn't make the most of their chances there were points for us in the game)

One last thing - stop f*****g passing the ball backwards! I swear Mullins has grown ginger hair and started talking with a Northern Irish accent.

Look at Man U with Keane and Scholes - we need BOTH centre midfielders capable of passing the ball forwards fluently and driving forward aggressively to link up with the strikers.

AP - I reckon you've got the squad material to take us to a nice top half finish this season, and to push on next season even more; but it's time to start modelling the players' habits more intensively on the practices of the year-in, year-out top teams.

There's quite a difference, financially and psychologically, between coming 7-8th, and coming 13-16th. I reckon on our showing so far this season the former is possible but requires the implementation of some more advanced methods.

Does this sound sensible?
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Post by bluebutterfly »

Rocketron wrote:You're Shrek and you know you are
What a great chant.
Did you hear the other one :lol:
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Post by A New Hope »

Ironball wrote:I thought our problem today was being overawed into not keeping the ball.

We are usually pretty bad at this as we end up hoofing the long ball up to Harewood, but today every time we intercepted possession, the interception was twinned with a nervous stab twenty yards to a United player or off for an unnecessary corner. I was watching Man United's interceptions and their players were mentally two seconds ahead of the play, so that every time they intercepted they had a sense of who was where and made sure the power and direction of the challenge ensured the ball ran to a Man U player.

If the manager reads KUMB - you need to teach the players that we have to crank it up from the crisis mentality of just 'putting in a challenge-clearance'. Not good enough to protect a lead if a new attack starts immediately.

COMPOSURE!

Also, Yossi's comment about being allowed a 'free role' was a complete joke in the first half. He effectively played as a third centre midfield player in a severely packed middle, and we failed to exploit a lot of space on the flank. At one point someone played what looked like a protest pass consciously into an acre of absent space.

I was quite encouraged with how the manager changed things around in the second half, though, putting Marlon on the right and Yossi in the hole.

On thing is for sure: Yossi needs to be played in the middle or in the hole, or the manager needs to sort out the issue of Yossi playing on the right hand side, as a flank player. Either get him more ball by moving him inside, or nail his foot to the touchline and sort out distribution from the back.

I really like Yossi as a player, but either his positional play is bad, or his share of possession is not functioning properly at the moment, as he is always dropping too deep to get some ball or coming inside into dead-ends rather than getting the ball on the right and linking up with the strikers from there.

Since this has turned into quite a tactical post, I would also like to say, in case the manager reads these threads:

We usually look like we are making it up as we are going along whereas the best teams always have units of players, or triangles, moving across the pitch together providing options and patters they repeat, ad nauseam, to good effect. You don't have to have incredibly skilful players if your build-up strategies are well-defined and well executed.

Compare that with today, and as usual. When one of our players breaks he is usually totally isolated.

Please sort! (get some videos of Man U for Xmas or something and copy their patterns!!!)

(This is not to say that we didn't, intermittently, play a bit of football today - but I really think that since they didn't make the most of their chances there were points for us in the game)

One last thing - stop f*****g passing the ball backwards! I swear Mullins has grown ginger hair and started talking with a Northern Irish accent.

Look at Man U with Keane and Scholes - we need BOTH centre midfielders capable of passing the ball forwards fluently and driving forward aggressively to link up with the strikers.

AP - I reckon you've got the squad material to take us to a nice top half finish this season, and to push on next season even more; but it's time to start modelling the players' habits more intensively on the practices of the year-in, year-out top teams.

There's quite a difference, financially and psychologically, between coming 7-8th, and coming 13-16th. I reckon on our showing so far this season the former is possible but requires the implementation of some more advanced methods.

Does this sound sensible?
We just lost to Man Utd not Morecambe. We have a limited budget and the cheapest squad in the division, calm down, it's not the end of the world!!
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Post by Doubting Tomas »

Pleasantly stunned to be 1 up after 60 seconds but it was pretty obvious it couldn't last. Man Utd were a different class but in the end we lost to two goals by individual errors from ***** and Carroll.

1-2 wasn't a bad end result.

Onwards and upwards.
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Post by hammerdivone »

Post Horn Gallop wrote:I still think Pardews shagging Marlon and I hate to say it yet again, Carroll can't command his area, terrible coming out for their second. Shame realyy because apart from that he saved us from a right mullering.
Watch the replay, O'Shea hits him before heading the ball, technically a foul but in the papers tomorrow it counts as a goal. Carrolls fault? Which player was supposed to be picking up O'Shea in the first place?? Goalkeepers can be easy picking sometimes :roll:

Outclassed and outfought at times in midfield. We gave the ball away to cheaply and easily. Yossi is definitely better with the free role not stuck out on the right. Noble tried a bit too hard today and we definitely missed NRC today.

Anton and Gabbidon looked like they've never played together before - both caught out of position to many times. Konch and Matty don't seem to work that well together, Repka and Yossi even less (although by all accounts this has not been the case in previous games). I do think we got a bit found out today here. Anton was class though when Carroll saved from Rooney and the Horseman was looming in, and he just turned casually in the 6 yard box and passed the ball out.

In saying that though, the effort all round was superb. Marlene worked hard though once again although apart from the superb goal his first touch was found wanting. Sherringham tried too hard today too instead of doing the easy thing. Zman looked very sharp when he came on.

We were beaten by a better side, no disgrace in that. We scared them every time we went forward which was very encouraging. Sensible subs at the right time again today by Pards. We didn't embarass ourselves today and we can only grow in stature - the future looks very bright.
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Post by Amsterhammer »

hammerdivone wrote: Watch the replay, O'Shea hits him before heading the ball, technically a foul but in the papers tomorrow it counts as a goal. Carrolls fault? Which player was supposed to be picking up O'Shea in the first place?? Goalkeepers can be easy picking sometimes :roll:
It's only a minor quibble, but I disagree.

It looked to me like O'Shea got to the ball with his head before Carroll with his arms - that shouldn't happen, the keeper's reach must surely be longer.

It was the kind of goal-mouth challenge that just might have been disallowed on the continent, but is generally accepted in the English game.
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Post by hammerdivone »

Amsterhammer wrote: It's only a minor quibble, but I disagree.

It looked to me like O'Shea got to the ball with his head before Carroll with his arms - that shouldn't happen, the keeper's reach must surely be longer.

It was the kind of goal-mouth challenge that just might have been disallowed on the continent, but is generally accepted in the English game.
I thought that at first AH but when you see it from behind the goal O'Shea catches Carrolls leading arm first, then the ball. Ref could never of seen it though!
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Post by DI GREEKIO »

bottom line is the goal should have been dissalowed.
was watchiun the gtame with quiffer and he said it wasnt but he was fuckin drunk having drunk 15 pints and 2 bottles of wine

the manure player(shrek wasnt it or my drunk mind mistakens him?) was in the air with cartol, u could say it was a challenge but he hits carol before he gets to the ball.

fuckin manure has stolen 1 point again
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Post by Ironball »

A New Hope wrote: We just lost to Man Utd not Morecambe. We have a limited budget and the cheapest squad in the division, calm down, it's not the end of the world!!
I know - my point is not that we're in a crisis but that we could have f*****g taken three points!
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Post by If only.... »

Ironball wrote:
That and Rooney having a good day were the two key issues.

Other teams will catch Manure out by not being overawed on days when Rooney is not on his game.
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Post by DannyboyDJL »

It was a foul for the second for me he knocked carrolls hands out of the way but lets be fair they battered us really. We looked good on the break and there are some good signs from the team in certain areas.

Anton and Gabbs did look a bit shaky at times but lets face it Rooney is probably the best player that some of our players have ever played against. He's a different class really and we've got to be proud that without him today we would have had a great chance of beating an otherwise average utd side. He ran us all over the park but they didn't really cause us problems from anywhere else on the park.

Dan
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Post by Romford Iron »

Here's my thoughts:

Well done to the boys to start off with, losing 2-1 to managed is no disgrace, just look where we were last year at this time (losing at the New Den??) although should have been 4 or 5.

I thought Man u were phenomal today. Their passing, movement and awareness of each other positioning was superb. And that boy Rooney was the same. So much so that he did get some applause when he cruyff turned Mullins and Noble I think it was. Even o'Shea sprayed some nice cross field balls to Fletcher. They knocked it round for fun.

Matty was better today, Noble looked out of his depth but to be expected as he's still learning, but he also got stuck in a few times which was good to see. Gabbs had his worst game today, seemed to be a bit overawed and nervous.

IMO opinion i wouldn't start Teddy in these games. He looks so off the pace at times. Also when he jumps for headers he seems to land on his feet before the ball even arrives!!

And why is it we seem to have to pass the ball hundreds of times before we get a cross in, has happened throughout the season. Konch and Matty seem to think they do and end up losing possession. In the second half Tommy and Yossi seem to do the same when there's a queue of people in the box!!

Also O'Shea second goal IMO was down too poor marking. He did exactly the same thing a few minutes after, running in from the left unaided.

Gripes aside, I thought we played well overall, and the first half more than held their own against one of the best teams in Europe.

Bring on Brum!!!
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Post by wanstead »

Romford Iron wrote:Here's my thoughts:

Matty was better today, Noble looked out of his depth


Mark Noble played out of his skin for his 2nd premiership game..

First game away at Spurs. First 20 mins he was blowing, but thereafter he bossed the middle..

Today, Mark Noble. Caroll and the Welshman were awesome.

But I just "can not seem to get enough"..... D.Mode
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