Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby thejackhammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:08 am

‘Moyes has done okay’

We’re 5th in the form table aren’t we? How is that ‘okay’

His safety first football making us one of the highest goal scorers since he’s arrived. Must be so boring for us all. I get it, a lot of us didn’t like him when he arrived, but the humblepie tastes lovely, you should all try some.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby MB on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:43 am

thejackhammer wrote:‘Moyes has done okay’

We’re 5th in the form table aren’t we? How is that ‘okay’

His safety first football making us one of the highest goal scorers since he’s arrived. Must be so boring for us all. I get it, a lot of us didn’t like him when he arrived, but the humblepie tastes lovely, you should all try some.


But then you can point to the number of shots and possession to counter that. We play “efficient” football, but we don’t dominant games or consistently have the lions share of shots. That is fine against the top six, but I think it is right to expect more against mid and lower table sides (especially at home) if Moyes is going to continue next season. That would be progress.

Possession is misleading as a stat as it measures completed passes and a lot of our attacks are based on our attackers running at the opposition, but we certainly haven’t shown the ability to keep the ball for any period of time. Again, I don’t think it is much to expect that to change should he keep the job but I can also see that is dependent on a good signing or two in midfield.

I don’t like the man, but he is doing well. The question is can he take us further next season within the constraints we have?
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby hadleighhammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:43 am

thejackhammer wrote:‘Moyes has done okay’

We’re 5th in the form table aren’t we? How is that ‘okay’


Over how many games are you selectively looking at form? He's about 10/11th since he took over in November. That is Ok IMO, not exceptional.

His safety first football making us one of the highest goal scorers since he’s arrived. Must be so boring for us all.


Right, so now you want to look at since he joined. In that case we're nowhere near the highest goalscorers since November. Not even in the Top 10 for home goals scored. Our overall goal difference is zero. Again, that is OK IMO, not exceptional.

I'll revisit the humble pie at the end of the season thanks. You can eat it all you like for the moment though.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby thejackhammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:47 am

I don’t understand how people are expecting us to dominate teams at home when he took over a team in the relegation places severely lacking in depth, and without a recognised defensive midfielder.

Conveniently you ignore our away goals scored to make a point, that’s 10 gone from just three away games. We were 18th under Bilic gettIng taken to pieces by just about every team we played and only looking worse with every game. Now we’re 11th.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby ludo22 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:53 am

Colours never run wrote:All the evidence pointed to Bilic keeping us up as he did for us 2 season's running and still with 3 quarters of the season left in this one only just dipping into the bottom 3 barely adrift from no one with the time for the likes of Hernandez and Arnautovic to settle in more. And we were still going strong in the League Cup so we weren't in an utterly dire situation with inevitable relegation pending. It was anything but.


I've gotta disagree with that.There really was no evidence at all.We were utter **** at the end of Bilic's time and I have no doubts whatsoever that we were going down.The rosiest of rose-tinted glasses can't get away from that.I think a lot of peoples' affection for him as a man have clouded their judgement to the mess we were at the end.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby hadleighhammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:08 pm

thejackhammer wrote:Conveniently you ignore our away goals scored to make a point, that’s 10 gone from just three away games. We were 18th under Bilic gettIng taken to pieces by just about every team we played and only looking worse with every game. Now we’re 11th.


Yep, so with our form being around 11th we're doing ok, just like I said.

Away goals overall we're also about 10th. That's doing ok. I didn't choose to ignore it's just that I've only seen 1 away game under Moyes (Arsenal in the cup :x ) so didn't feel could comment as much on the football, whilst have seen all his home games.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby only1post on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:35 pm

I think Moyes is best judged by what he achieved at Everton.
Premier League finishing positions would average out at somewhere between 7th and 8th.
However I am sure a few times he had bad starts to campaigns.
His cup runs tend to end in the early stages.
I wonder what his net spending on players was like when he was there? I don't recall Kenwright splashing the cash.
Ask yourself would you be happy with that for the next ten years.
No relegation battles, comfortable top ten, not much success in the cups, limited outlay on players.
I know three people who would be over the moon with that type of record.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby TommyHammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:39 pm

One thing can be said about the bloke though...You definitely cannot judge him based on his time at Sunderland. I feel that part of his reputation has been repaired.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Burnley Hammer on Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:42 pm

MB wrote:I don’t like the man, but he is doing well. The question is can he take us further next season within the constraints we have?


The question is... can anybody? To progress, we'll need to work on removing some of those constraints - and seeing as the biggest one seems to be the owners, I'm not sure how possible that is. Moyes may well be the best we're going to get. To let him go may prove to be a big mistake. In terms of possession football and dominating games... that's not going to happen without the right players being brought in. Players that are comfortable are retaining possession under pressure. Defenders that are good enough to play in a 4 at the back system. A defensive midfielder that can offer good support to a 4 man defence. Same old, same old.

If we want to play a possession based game and dominate teams then, regardless of how much people like them, it's players like Antonio, Kouyate, and Collins that need to be replaced.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby samanthadog on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:28 pm

Here's a link to the premier league table for the last 12 games only which is from the Chelsea win onwards. It obviously doesn't include his first four matches in charge where he was trying to sort out the poor situation he inherited.
It shows us sixth with 20 points from those 12 games.
A vast improvement on the earlier part of the season.

https://www.twtd.co.uk/league-tables/co ... -and-away/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope the link works. I'm not great with tech!!!!
:(
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby stevieboy on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:32 pm

I must admit I was hoping to get Mr Chocolate at the time, he's bottom of that table on 7 points!
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby The Full Fonte on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:51 pm

to be fair if you look at moyes points in his 16 games its 21 points which is 1.313 points a game.

Bilic after 11 games had 9 points giving 0.818 points a game which had us in 18th. Moyes with his points per game would of had us in 11th.

Same way as if we would of of had Moyes for the whole season with those points per game we would of been on 35 points and sat comfortably tied for 8th in the league.

Cant argue with the fact that Moyes is getting more out of the players than Bilic was, for now at least anyway.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Turns to Stone on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:59 pm

For whatever reason, the players had stopped running for Bilic. In a league like this, when you have a slow squad (as we do) and the players can't be arsed to sprint then you're going to be in trouble.

I can't help but think that Bilic being undermined by the owners (with Sakho for example) but sadly, Bilic had to go.

Moyes has done very well. Getting the most out of Arnautovic will probably keep us in the division alone, but he also seems to be getting more out of Kouyate and Ogbonna, and with decent performances from everyone else that's enough.

I've been impressed by him.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Rays Rock on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:38 pm

Those form facts are over 1/3 a season and tell a good account of his influence. 1 point behind 2 clubs that must have spent a few hundred million upon purchases over the last few windows between them.
The key now is to sustain something to this level which we won’t of course as we clearly aren’t a top 6 side.
Something resembling that form has us pushing on for 50 points which if talked about in november would have been absurd and the men in white coats would have been called.
I’ll settle for anything around 45 points as a very good acheivment considering the condition of the squad when he arrived and the amount of injuries sustained during that 12 game form table.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby goa127 on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:41 pm

The trouble with Stats is you can choose the ones that support your argument. Possession has to be the most meaningless one of all. Against Watford apparently they had something like 70% possession.. Doing what exactly? Certainly not threatening our goal very often. West Ham have never played possession football. My earliest memories are watching Bobby Moore play the ball up to Geoff Hurst who would then lay the ball off with his chest or head. Harry redknapp would kick and run down the wing and bang in a cross to the near post. Not that that's anything to do with david Moyes. I didn't feel we played well in a single game under bilic this season even when we won, ironically we played well in patches while getting stuffed by Liverpool. We may get to a stage down the line when we want more expansive football, but for now David Moyes has made his mark (in a good way)
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Chicken Run Supreme on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:46 pm

Like many I am beginning to like the taste of the humble pie I'm eating right now. Wasn't in my top 20 candidates for the job but was not going to right him off straight away and see how it unfolds. So far so good. We ain't out of the woods but he seems to have instilled some spirit and a bit of get up and go within the team, which for whatever reason had got up and gone under Slav. I'm convinced had Slaven Bilic been left in the job we'd have gone down like we did with Grant.
Half Term report from me says well done so far, keep it up please.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Coops on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:05 pm

I never like Moyes, I never wanted Moyes, I voted Pardew in the poll.
Hindsight is 20/20 I was wrong about his ability and I am starting to like him, he comes across really well in interviews and has got the team motivated.
I would like to see him get a contract extension come the end of the season.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Albie Beck on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:16 pm

I think comparisons with what went before are pretty unhelpful. Whatever you thought of Bilic, it's gone, over.

What does seem to be evolving is that Moyes is becoming a decent fit with both club and fans. His football is pragmatic at times, but he is getting something out of key players, and that means that we are also good to watch at times, at both ends of the pitch.

Also, he has been conducting himself with dignity and honesty through a testing period, and has not offered excuses. That's also something that I think we like. And I like the coaching team he has assembled. Professional all the way through.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Smonnie on Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:18 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:For whatever reason, the players had stopped running for Bilic. In a league like this, when you have a slow squad (as we do) and the players can't be arsed to sprint then you're going to be in trouble.

I can't help but think that Bilic being undermined by the owners (with Sakho for example) but sadly, Bilic had to go.

Moyes has done very well. Getting the most out of Arnautovic will probably keep us in the division alone, but he also seems to be getting more out of Kouyate and Ogbonna, and with decent performances from everyone else that's enough.

I've been impressed by him.


I'm not with you. I don't think there was any way we could have kept Bilic. For whatever reason, it just wasn't working any more. The players didn't seem to want to play for him and the owners were undermining him.

On the other hand, unlike you I think Moyes has well exceeded expectations and is getting much more out of the squad.
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Re: Moyes appointed West Ham United manager

Postby Rocketron on Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:16 pm

Turns to Stone wrote:For whatever reason, the players had stopped running for Bilic. In a league like this, when you have a slow squad (as we do) and the players can't be arsed to sprint then you're going to be in trouble.

I can't help but think that Bilic being undermined by the owners (with Sakho for example) but sadly, Bilic had to go.

Moyes has done very well. Getting the most out of Arnautovic will probably keep us in the division alone, but he also seems to be getting more out of Kouyate and Ogbonna, and with decent performances from everyone else that's enough.

I've been impressed by him.

Smonnie wrote:I'm not with you. I don't think there was any way we could have kept Bilic. For whatever reason, it just wasn't working any more. The players didn't seem to want to play for him and the owners were undermining him.

On the other hand, unlike you I think Moyes has well exceeded expectations and is getting much more out of the squad.

WTF is your problem, Smonnie ?
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